Methodissed

The bible repeatedly states that Armageddon should have happened centuries ago (see verses below.) I'm curious; what argument is commonly used to explain this obvious inconsistency? I mean, we are still here...

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"Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matt. 16:28

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Matt. 24:34

And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power." Mark 9:1

But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God." Luke 9:27

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place." Luke 21:32

The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place... Rev. 1:1

Behold I am coming quickly... Rev. 3:11

He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Rev. 22:20

Cronus Malor

The most common explanation is that when Jesus says 'these things' and 'kingdom of God come with power', he isn't referring to the Apocalypse. I don't know enough about the Bible to tell weather or not this is legitimate, but I would be surprised. What else could he have been referring to? Whatever it is, did IT even happen yet?

Methodissed

In reviewing related verses, it seems quite clear that they are referencing the Apocalypse. Below are few verses surrounding Matt 24:34. They explicitly refer to the demise of mankind, and say it will happen within a few years:

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
39 and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.

Cronus Malor

Tell that to the creationists!

braces_for_impact

The most often heard (and lamest) apology I have heard to this one is the early founding of the church taking place, which was Jesus' "spiritual kindom". As far as phrases like "shortly" and "soon", well that could be god's translation of such, which according to some xtians, could be eons over eons. I've practically given up on end times events biblical errors. The 'end is nigh' group of xtians are about as whacky and irrational as they come, and as many errors you can find, they have an excuse for, lest their faith be shaken.

Methodissed

Matthew 24:38-39 says "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man."

That hardly implies founding of a church, particularly in light of the many other verses that link Armageddon with the coming of Jesus. That's their best argument?

Also, Matthew 24:34 "...this generation will not pass away till all these things take place" is not the same as "shortly" or "soon." It's a definitive time frame. How do they tackle that one?

wordsmyth

Don't forget that Moses explained that false prophets deserved death...

Deuteronomy 18
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

krazytamak

methodissed,
your points are pretty good, i actually have wondered the same thing myself for awhile, i've been hoping some preacher comes to me trying to save me so i can see his response, but for seome reason they never come to me anymore... anyone know of a good christian apologists message board so we can see what they say to this?

The Other Michael

Hi Wordsmyth,

Since none of the biblical prophicies can be shown (AFAIK) to come true, shouldn't all True Christians (TM) therefore conclude that all the prophets documented in the Bible were false prophets, thereby descrediting the whole things?

cheers,
Michael

cydonia

This is my kind of thread!

Funny, but throughout my years of fundie indoctrination the verses mentioned here were never brought up. I swear! No kidding on this side of the computer screen. If it's possible that the "end" already happened, what could the church do to scare us into heaven? Wouldn't their argument of the end of the world be moot? Did i mention that no one ever told me about those verses? Could they be hiding something? Of course not. These are god's people we're talking about.

These are the two strongest arguments i've seen from online fundie friends.

"This Generation" means generation of man, i.e. all the years humans will ever be on earth. Which covers all the bases i guess.

"Complement". There is no such thing as a contradiction in the bible, only complements. Therefore it becomes impossible for a modern interpretation of the bible to be really refuted.

Hope i added something to this conversation.