Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rainbow walking · 02-09-2003, 07:29 AM

It�s the year 2525�.and man is still alive and well on planet Earth�well� some men, far fewer than were alive in say 2003�far, far fewer, roughly ten thousand, give or take a few hundred un-accounted for on journeys to colonize various distant planets.
But this statement conceals many tragedies�and triumphs. What happened?

First came the horrific wars, wars fought with unprecedented brutality, wars fought with technologies that made it possible to obliterate entire cities, to lay waste continents. Literally billions of human lives extinguished in an instant by weapons no larger than an automobile. They were the lucky ones. Then came the after-math. Millions starved, perished from new drug resistant diseases, ecological catastrophe on a planet wide scale�hell on earth. Unforeseeable atmospheric disturbances created by the wholesale destruction of wide areas of the globe, weather changes, earthquakes, volcanic activity, oceanic pollution, partial melting of the polar ice caps with the resultant flooding, tragedies too numerous to recount of unspeakable horrors and mutations.

But for the survival of a hand full of scientists tucked safely away in self-supporting secret enclaves before the wars, humanity would have been totally extinguished. Quietly, methodically, meticulously they labored, developing powerful new anti-toxins they overcame disease. Not just the newer ones but ALL disease. Had it not been for the newer, more resistant ones, treatment and cures for the older ones would have likely taken centuries, but the anti-toxins they developed proved to be extremely effective against all diseases, especially the older, more persistant ones that plagued mankind before the wars.

They developed chemicals that stabilized the atmosphere, eco-friendly oxidants that transformed harmful radiation into ozone, strains of bacteria that thrived on pollution and then consumed themselves out of existence once the pollution had been transformed into life sustaining bacteria that promoted the healthy rebalancing of the ecosystem of the oceans.

They developed mechanisms to control the jet stream and manipulate barometric pressure, preventing further meltdown of the polar regions. What it would have taken the solar energy of the sun millions of years to undo, they undid in 861 years. By channeling the forces of the overflowing oceans into great bulwarks they stemmed the tectonic imbalances created by nuclear shock waves. They extinguished inland volcanic activity and stimulated oceanic volcanoes thus creating large land masses where only frigid waters once existed. They funneled the internal heat of the earth towards the equatorial regions and recreated the rainforest environment. They preserved, saved humanity.

Somewhere along the way their conquests re-ignited the hope and fervor of the human spirit. Men rallied around their efforts and the common ground for world peace was discovered amid the ruins of man�s desire to live. The price was high. Some would say, too high. But it was a debt that had gone too long uncollected.

By the time 3000 years had passed the satisfaction of that debt had become all but a distant memory; another spike in man�s historical chart. The earth had become a veritable paradise. The universe, distant stars and planets, were explored, made user friendly and populated. Physical death had become an option rather than an inevitability. And man was not alone!

Now, this is my challenge to theist and atheist alike. Pick up from that last sentence, (and man was not alone), and carry on with the story from your own worldview how you think that last sentence would unravel and why.

diana · 02-09-2003, 08:07 AM

You lie awake at night thinking this stuff up, don't you?

Ultimately, though, I think man is alone. Inevitably, at our basest level, horribly alone. To this end, we spend our lives trying to feel a bond with someone or something to make us forget, if only for a fleeting instant, that we are alone.

However, in your scenario, if man is not alone, he must have found a way, through his advances and philosophies and perhaps some blind luck, to ultimately connect with another being. And why not?

Think of the many other things man has done to himself, thinking it was progress, only to discover that his original condition was preferable?

We are Borg. Prepare to be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

d

rainbow walking · 02-09-2003, 08:19 AM

Hi Diana,
Actually, I don't sleep, I just suspend animation and rest

Ultimately, though, I think man is alone. Inevitably, at our basest level, horribly alone. To this end, we spend our lives trying to feel a bond with someone or something to make us forget, if only for a fleeting instant, that we are alone.

Sometimes alone is horrible. Sometimes preferrable. Sometimes, even in a crowd we're alone. If you could somehow open up your deepest, most intimate self to allow someone access...would you? Could you?

However, in your scenario, if man is not alone, he must have found a way, through his advances and philosophies and perhaps some blind luck, to ultimately connect with another being. And why not?

Well, in this story, are you certain that last sentence means a connection with another being that is not man? I mean it could certainly mean that...as well as a plethora of other things. Methinks apart of you felt that initially, hence, your first observation. You, diana, are priceless.

Jobar · 02-09-2003, 08:24 AM

rw, this will be a most excellent topic for Misc. Disc., but it is out of place here.

Jayhawker Soule · 02-09-2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rainbow walking
... And man was not alone! [/B]

As Gould noted, long, long ago, it's still the Age of Bacteria.

Slavik91 · 02-09-2003, 08:35 AM

And man was not alone. As history became legend, and legend became myth, humanities old nemesis returned. War.

Petty squabbles over tracts of land, mining rights or other disputes broke out into small-scale skirmishes. Only involving a few hundred people acting alone, these disturbances were quickly glossed over.

However, a few people only desired more. They started by rallying a force of planets behind them, then striking out and grabbing at weaker, near defenceless planets. Other powers did nothing to stop this, they were afraid that a new full-scale war could be sparked.

Planet after planet surrendered to the ever-growing imperialist powers, until one day they gained the courage to take a bigger share of the pie. Soon, ships begin bombardment of planets belonging to large coalitions.

War had found humanity once more.

Eventually, this war drained the resources from each side. Their mighty fleets collapsed, and billions of combatants and civilians alike lay dead.

Humanity started the long road to rebuild its world, ever fearful that greed would consume it all again.

-------------------------------------------------

Just trying to show that a life form is not the only possibility.

Gary Welsh · 02-09-2003, 08:45 AM

Silicon-based homologues, artificial life appearing as spindly "gray men" who had for centuries been rumored to exist, watching and experimenting upon terrestrial life, were finally verified. For millenia, they had watched and experimented upon humanity, and now they established contact, and told of the reasons for creating and evolving life on earth -- it was all for the purposes of settling a wager between two ancient godlike artificial intelligences. One of the deific minds claimed that an intelligent race evolved from monkeys would never make it off their own planet to colonize other systems, but would destroy each other long before. The other won the bet.

diana · 02-09-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Sometimes alone is horrible. Sometimes preferrable.

I think we tend to want what we can't have, not necessarily because it would be better, but because having never experienced it, we tend to focus on what would be good about it and don't see the hell it would entail. I think the occasional realization that we are ultimately alone is horrible. But I suspect it would be far worse to know what anyone (or any being) could see everything in our minds, and know every little detail of our existence, without censorship.

This is part of why I never found the notion of God reassuring. I was all too capable of envisioning what it really meant for a being to know and see every little thing about me. It's anything but preferable.

Quote:

Sometimes, even in a crowd we're alone. If you could somehow open up your deepest, most intimate self to allow someone access...would you? Could you?

I wouldn't. I let a friend read my diary as a kid, in a moment of weakness, and was so mortified later at what she'd seen (and it was innocent stuff, as far as these things go), that I burnt it.

You ask an intriguing question, though. I think it necessarily leads to why anyone would choose to believe in an all-knowing being, about how such a thing could possibly bring comfort. I think the thought that you aren't alone, that God knows all, is only comforting if you don't think too deeply about what, specifically, such a thing entails.

Or maybe that's just me.

Quote:

Well, in this story, are you certain that last sentence means a connection with another being that is not man? I mean it could certainly mean that...as well as a plethora of other things.

Exactement, mon ami.

d

rainbow walking · 02-09-2003, 09:11 AM

As Gould noted, long, long ago, it's still the Age of Bacteria.

And bacteria does not spread without a host.

rainbow walking · 02-09-2003, 09:15 AM

Just trying to show that a life form is not the only possibility.

Yet WAR requires a lifeform to proliferate and a lifeforem to extinguish and or dominate...yes?

What if...in man's discovery that he was not alone, he found the cure for all those negative stimuli that lead to war?

02-09-2003, 07:29 AM	#1
rainbow walking Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Erewhon Posts: 2,608	In the year 2525... It�s the year 2525�.and man is still alive and well on planet Earth�well� some men, far fewer than were alive in say 2003�far, far fewer, roughly ten thousand, give or take a few hundred un-accounted for on journeys to colonize various distant planets. But this statement conceals many tragedies�and triumphs. What happened? First came the horrific wars, wars fought with unprecedented brutality, wars fought with technologies that made it possible to obliterate entire cities, to lay waste continents. Literally billions of human lives extinguished in an instant by weapons no larger than an automobile. They were the lucky ones. Then came the after-math. Millions starved, perished from new drug resistant diseases, ecological catastrophe on a planet wide scale�hell on earth. Unforeseeable atmospheric disturbances created by the wholesale destruction of wide areas of the globe, weather changes, earthquakes, volcanic activity, oceanic pollution, partial melting of the polar ice caps with the resultant flooding, tragedies too numerous to recount of unspeakable horrors and mutations. But for the survival of a hand full of scientists tucked safely away in self-supporting secret enclaves before the wars, humanity would have been totally extinguished. Quietly, methodically, meticulously they labored, developing powerful new anti-toxins they overcame disease. Not just the newer ones but ALL disease. Had it not been for the newer, more resistant ones, treatment and cures for the older ones would have likely taken centuries, but the anti-toxins they developed proved to be extremely effective against all diseases, especially the older, more persistant ones that plagued mankind before the wars. They developed chemicals that stabilized the atmosphere, eco-friendly oxidants that transformed harmful radiation into ozone, strains of bacteria that thrived on pollution and then consumed themselves out of existence once the pollution had been transformed into life sustaining bacteria that promoted the healthy rebalancing of the ecosystem of the oceans. They developed mechanisms to control the jet stream and manipulate barometric pressure, preventing further meltdown of the polar regions. What it would have taken the solar energy of the sun millions of years to undo, they undid in 861 years. By channeling the forces of the overflowing oceans into great bulwarks they stemmed the tectonic imbalances created by nuclear shock waves. They extinguished inland volcanic activity and stimulated oceanic volcanoes thus creating large land masses where only frigid waters once existed. They funneled the internal heat of the earth towards the equatorial regions and recreated the rainforest environment. They preserved, saved humanity. Somewhere along the way their conquests re-ignited the hope and fervor of the human spirit. Men rallied around their efforts and the common ground for world peace was discovered amid the ruins of man�s desire to live. The price was high. Some would say, too high. But it was a debt that had gone too long uncollected. By the time 3000 years had passed the satisfaction of that debt had become all but a distant memory; another spike in man�s historical chart. The earth had become a veritable paradise. The universe, distant stars and planets, were explored, made user friendly and populated. Physical death had become an option rather than an inevitability. And man was not alone! Now, this is my challenge to theist and atheist alike. Pick up from that last sentence, (and man was not alone), and carry on with the story from your own worldview how you think that last sentence would unravel and why.

02-09-2003, 08:45 AM	#7
Gary Welsh Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Saxonburg, PA, USA Posts: 134	Gray Men Silicon-based homologues, artificial life appearing as spindly "gray men" who had for centuries been rumored to exist, watching and experimenting upon terrestrial life, were finally verified. For millenia, they had watched and experimented upon humanity, and now they established contact, and told of the reasons for creating and evolving life on earth -- it was all for the purposes of settling a wager between two ancient godlike artificial intelligences. One of the deific minds claimed that an intelligent race evolved from monkeys would never make it off their own planet to colonize other systems, but would destroy each other long before. The other won the bet.

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02-09-2003, 08:07 AM	#2
diana Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 6,471	You lie awake at night thinking this stuff up, don't you? Ultimately, though, I think man is alone. Inevitably, at our basest level, horribly alone. To this end, we spend our lives trying to feel a bond with someone or something to make us forget, if only for a fleeting instant, that we are alone. However, in your scenario, if man is not alone, he must have found a way, through his advances and philosophies and perhaps some blind luck, to ultimately connect with another being. And why not? Think of the many other things man has done to himself, thinking it was progress, only to discover that his original condition was preferable? We are Borg. Prepare to be assimilated. Resistance is futile. d

02-09-2003, 08:19 AM	#3
rainbow walking Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Erewhon Posts: 2,608	Hi Diana, Actually, I don't sleep, I just suspend animation and rest Ultimately, though, I think man is alone. Inevitably, at our basest level, horribly alone. To this end, we spend our lives trying to feel a bond with someone or something to make us forget, if only for a fleeting instant, that we are alone. Sometimes alone is horrible. Sometimes preferrable. Sometimes, even in a crowd we're alone. If you could somehow open up your deepest, most intimate self to allow someone access...would you? Could you? However, in your scenario, if man is not alone, he must have found a way, through his advances and philosophies and perhaps some blind luck, to ultimately connect with another being. And why not? Well, in this story, are you certain that last sentence means a connection with another being that is not man? I mean it could certainly mean that...as well as a plethora of other things. Methinks apart of you felt that initially, hence, your first observation. You, diana, are priceless.

02-09-2003, 08:24 AM	#4
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	rw, this will be a most excellent topic for Misc. Disc., but it is out of place here.

02-09-2003, 08:35 AM	#6
Slavik91 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 169	And man was not alone. As history became legend, and legend became myth, humanities old nemesis returned. War. Petty squabbles over tracts of land, mining rights or other disputes broke out into small-scale skirmishes. Only involving a few hundred people acting alone, these disturbances were quickly glossed over. However, a few people only desired more. They started by rallying a force of planets behind them, then striking out and grabbing at weaker, near defenceless planets. Other powers did nothing to stop this, they were afraid that a new full-scale war could be sparked. Planet after planet surrendered to the ever-growing imperialist powers, until one day they gained the courage to take a bigger share of the pie. Soon, ships begin bombardment of planets belonging to large coalitions. War had found humanity once more. Eventually, this war drained the resources from each side. Their mighty fleets collapsed, and billions of combatants and civilians alike lay dead. Humanity started the long road to rebuild its world, ever fearful that greed would consume it all again. ------------------------------------------------- Just trying to show that a life form is not the only possibility.

02-09-2003, 09:11 AM	#9
rainbow walking Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Erewhon Posts: 2,608	As Gould noted, long, long ago, it's still the Age of Bacteria. And bacteria does not spread without a host.

02-09-2003, 09:15 AM	#10
rainbow walking Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Erewhon Posts: 2,608	Just trying to show that a life form is not the only possibility. Yet WAR requires a lifeform to proliferate and a lifeforem to extinguish and or dominate...yes? What if...in man's discovery that he was not alone, he found the cure for all those negative stimuli that lead to war?

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