TomboyMom

First, one does hear or read about these anecdotal cases. But does belieiving in god really help people to overcome these kinds of problems? Does believing in god cause a positive measurable impact on behavior? That would have to be verified through rigorous double-blind study. I'm assuming that you are aware of the problems with anecdotal evidence--it is just about worthless. Among other things, only the cases where it worked are noticed or remembered. All the times where people prayed and stayed fat are not talked about, and they may be just as common.

Second, assuming that there is in fact a measurable effect, you ask Possibly. That's one hypothesis. How could this hypothesis be verified or disproved? What evidence would tend to support it or disconfirm it? Be open-minded. For example, if god existed, wouldn't prayer that affects external events work as well as internal change? Events such as the weather, stock market, etc? And if a given god exists, and the others do not, wouldn't only prayer to the one that exists work, and the others not? For example, if Allah exists, and Jesus does not, then only prayer to Allah would work, right? You could do a study of fat people of various religions, all of them praying, and see which ones lost the most weight.

There are other hypotheses that could explain this phenomenon. Perhaps there is a principle of psychology that strengthens people's will to change if they believe that something greater than themselves cares about and is helping them. Or maybe religious people are motivated to change in order to bolster/prove their own belief system. There are many possible explanations for this phenomenon, assuming it exists.

My overall point is, THINK. Think hard, think skeptically, think scientifically. And see where actual observations--not preconceived prejudices--lead you.

Rene

Jobar

Whispers, what the Bible, and all other books purporting to be holy, are trying to tell you-

"What you read here is Truth. There is no other way to learn the Truth but to read this book.

The priests are wise. They know the Truth. You are not wise, unless you have learned the Truth from them. You must obey them in their every command, and think what they tell you to.

The Truth you learn from the priests and from this book is the word of the God(s). They know all. They create all the world, so this book is Absolute Truth, never to be questioned, or added to, or rebelled against, at the cost of eternal torture."

The Zeroeth Commandment is "THOU SHALT NOT QUESTION."

The one word which best describes the message of all holy books is "OBEY!"

If you want to live your life in this way, then I- we- pity you. You will never be free, will never know the joy of *real* truth (with a small t.)

Spenser

Much like in They Live when they find those special sunglasses and see the writing on the billboards...

OBEY!!!

pariah

What?!??! They are leading BUDDIST lives. But thats not even what I was adressing!

You say that so many Christians find happiness through beleiving in Christ, and your reasoning for this is because he exists! Yet the buddist do not beleive in Christ, but they experience the same, and according to these studies (the buddist monks were compared to catholic and other religions) even MORE happiness WITHOUT beleif in Christ!!!

This has nothing to do with leading godly lives, it has to do with beleif in Christ compared to beleif in other religous shiat!

ComestibleVenom

Simple. They leave me in stunned awe of mind-bending gullibility and self-deception people are capable of.

Invisible friends that grownups believe and TALK to. It's just too silly for words.

ComestibleVenom

There is some statstistical evidence that *active* believers give more to charities, have fewer drug problems etc etc.

It's utterly absurd and scientifically illegitimate to attribute this difference to god. There are numerous obvious and not-so-obvious factors influencing these statstistics, none of which involve violating scientific methodology by invoking infinite beings to explain not only finite but rather insignificant differences.

Jobar

Statistics on belief and imprisonment for the US prison population

Here's some solid proof that lack of god-belief is a positive influence.

pariah

Yeah but even as an atheist I don't think those statistics are something to brag about...becoming a good christian is the biggest parole cop out there is. You can't really know for sure what the beleifs are.

Whispers

A lot of what has been said on this thread makes good sense to me. Analytical minds which can sift through the stream of bullshit that is thown our way daily, and find the nuggets of truth, are to be admired and respected. Most people have a fear of looking gullible or being taken in and made to look stupid. To be had over, is painfull and makes us ask questions of ourselves about our abilities to spot what is really happening in our lives...

It seems to me that some of you are stuck on the notion of proof...In earlier posts I have asked for evidence of your biological father being who he said he is/was. I could ask for evidence that you are who you say you are? When next in a restaurant you will trust the chef to cook your food good and not give you salmonella. When next at traffic lights, and they turn green, you have faith that those opposite you will heed the red light they see and not come out and smash into you. Every single day, faith and trust play a part in our lives. Do you have faith in your partner? If yes, it is based on the evidence you see every day....but unless you are with your partner every moment, then for all you know they could be sleeping with the neighbours as soon as you go off to work. So as well as evidence, there has to be faith. Without faith and trust a relationship simply cannot work.

When looking towards the issue of a creator being, we apply a different set of principles than we tend to in other parts of our lives...

We say, "where is the proof"...

We say, "If X happens, there cannot be a God".

We say, "There is no evidence for God. If there was I would believe".


Even if God revealed himself next Wednesday to the entire world, you would still need to take a step of faith. If God walked on Earth again and performed miracles in front of the worlds press, you would STILL have to take a step of faith to believe in him. Granted, it would be far easier if you witnessed him healing the blind and the sick, or parting the waves. However, I suspect that no matter what happened, and what you saw on CNN, some of you would never believe....Some of you would remain cynical and would want it proved right before your eyes....even then maybe you would remain atheist.

To my understanding, you cannot find God by looking for proof. You have to use faith and trust, just like you do in your every day life. When these things are combined with the evidence for a creator, you can develop a strong relationship.

How many things in your life do you accept as true, without direct evidence? I wager there are a lot more than you care to think about....

EGGO

"They cannot rebel until they become conscious, they cannot become conscious until they rebel."
-1984