Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jojo-sa · 01-23-2002, 12:46 AM

Jihad

The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. ....

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This post is/was a cut and paste -- without proper attribution -- from the article Islam - A Religion of Terror? which is from Invitation to Islam, Issue 5 October, 1998, and which is posted on a number of Islamic websites including:

<a href="http://thetruereligion.org/terror.htm" target="_blank">The True Religion, An Invitation to Discover Islam</a>

<a href="http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/terrorism_terror.htm" target="_blank">Islam, the Modern Religion</a>

<a href="http://peringat.parti-pas.org/new_page_4.htm" target="_blank">Parti Islam Semalaysia</a>

<a href="http://www.alharamain.org/english/newsletter/issue49/dawaa.htm" target="_blank">Alharamain Organization</a>

... and many other places.

--

Note to jojo-sa: Do not post what amounts to a cut and paste of an entire article (or nearly so) from another website. You may use short quotes from articles on other websites -- with proper attribution -- or link to the articles which you wish to reference, as I have done.

Thanks,
--Don--

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[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

emotional · 01-23-2002, 01:31 AM

Qur'an 3:86

waman yabtigh ghaira l-islaami diinan falan yuqbala 'anhu wafi l-aakhirati yakuunu mina l-khaasiriin

"And he who chooses a religion other than Islam, it shall never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the lost".

Qur'an 3:169

wala tahsabanna alladhiina qutiluu fi sabiili llaahi amwaatan bal ahyaa'un 'inda rabbihim yurzaquun

"And do not think of those who were killed in the path of Allah as dead, but alive, receiving sustenance from their Lord".

Qur'an 43:74-77

inna l-mujrimiina fi 'adhaabi jahannama khaaliduun. la yufattaru 'anhum wahum fiihi mublisuun. wama zalamnaahum walaakin kaanuu humu z-zaalimiin. wanaadau yaamaaliku liyaqdi 'alaina rabbuka qaala innakum maakithuun.

"Indeed the guilty are immortal in hell's torment. It is not relaxed for them, and they despair therein. We wronged them not, but they it was who did the wrong. And they cry: O master! Let thy Lord make an end of us. He saith: Lo! here ye must remain."

You may think Islam is the religion which defends the mazloomeen (oppressed), but in fact, there is no more zaalim (oppressing) religion that Islam.

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/revelquran.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/revelquran.html</a>

Vorkosigan · 01-23-2002, 03:09 AM

If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief.

Yes, I've noticed how well-run, safe, orderly and secure Muslim countries are.

Michael

Euromutt · 01-23-2002, 05:35 AM

Oh, this is familiar ground; since 11-Sep, I've read in I cannot remember how many places that "jihad" does not equate with "holy war."
We know.
We know, by now, that "jihad" means struggle in furtherance or defence of the tenets of Islam. It does not only mean "war."
But "war" is one of the aspects, and for some reason it is the aspect that western society most comes into contact with. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the context the west has most heard the word "jihad" in, is when yet another mullah or sheikh proclaims a jihad against the infidels and follows it up with a couple of car bombs.
I think we westerners may be forgiven for being leery of the term under those circumstances, as muslims may be forgiven for getting edgy when the term "crusade" is used in the West.

Born Free · 01-23-2002, 06:49 AM

I personally think the term "Fatwah" is more disturbing.

<a href="http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~owend/interests/islam/fatwa.html" target="_blank">Fatwah</a>

Euromutt · 01-23-2002, 07:00 AM

As an interesting aside, in the thread "Religion of Islam" in this forum, jojo-sa accused Ibn Warraq of quoting the Koran out of context. Jojo-sa is, however, not above doing so him(?)self.

Quote:

"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity"
(Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8)

Not much context to go with that, only interpretation (and we all know how uniform interpretation of the Koran and the Hadith are...). The entire chapter may be read here: <a href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/060.qmt.html" target="_blank">Translations of Chapter 60: AL-MUMTAHINA (SHE THAT IS TO BE EXAMINED, EXAMINING HER)</a>.
That's just one example.

Beelzebub · 01-23-2002, 08:21 AM

This is just the same old same old. Just like christians, all theist try this excuse. If anything bad was done by people who claim to be of my religion, they are not "true" christians, muslims, hindus,whoever. In the end, there is no excuse and no remedy but atheism.

emotional · 01-23-2002, 08:46 AM

Hey, you f**king coward hit-and-run troll, come back here if you dare! I can beat you at Qur'anic quotations any day! Or else you're just another case of a would-be cyber-mujaahid trying to get a status of shaheed without being hurt. Coward!

ALLAHU AHBAL!

Qul: huwa llaahu ahbal; Allahu t-tambal; lam ya'qil walam yu'qal walam yakun minhu ayyun aswal.

(trans: "Say: He, Allah, is an idiot; Allah the stupid; not mindful nor minded, and there is no dafter than He". A spoof of Surat Al-Ikhlaas, of the Qur'an. Does it not qualify for a surah like those of the Qur'an? See, the Qur'an can be immitated! HAHAHAHAHA!)

hinduwoman · 01-23-2002, 08:43 PM

Same old apologetics.

Jihad is mental striving. But since Mohommad definitely preferred physical striving truly good muslims should follow him.

Islam rescued people who were oppressed. Yes, obviously the Jewish tribes in Arabia was crying out for a liberator, but for some odd reason insisted on fighting against their liberator. Same in every country muslims conquered.

whenever a muslim brings up the issue of Israel, I ask him what about Kashmir? The Islamic militants have killed thousands of hindus and driven out more to make Kashmir pure, but somehow in muslim eyes it is not as important as Israel. Of course sometimes they argue, that it is because Kashmir wants independance, but they conviniently forget these murders and the fact that hindus over there don't want it. Also, if Kashmiris want to be free of heathen India, is is not amazing that the 'freedom fighters' include more Arabs and paid mercernaries than Kashmiris?

Triple Six · 01-23-2002, 09:29 PM

Compare this with jojo-sa's other (semi literate) posts and this is obviously a straight forward copy and paste job from some other author.

So I'd like to know who really wrote this apologetic crap so they can read the the replies from our esteemed posters refuting the lies and distortions contained within it.

01-23-2002, 12:46 AM	#1
jojo-sa Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: europe Posts: 111	jihad Jihad The word jihad sends shivers down the spines of many Westerners. .... --------- --------- This post is/was a cut and paste -- without proper attribution -- from the article Islam - A Religion of Terror? which is from Invitation to Islam, Issue 5 October, 1998, and which is posted on a number of Islamic websites including: <a href="http://thetruereligion.org/terror.htm" target="_blank">The True Religion, An Invitation to Discover Islam</a> <a href="http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/terrorism_terror.htm" target="_blank">Islam, the Modern Religion</a> <a href="http://peringat.parti-pas.org/new_page_4.htm" target="_blank">Parti Islam Semalaysia</a> <a href="http://www.alharamain.org/english/newsletter/issue49/dawaa.htm" target="_blank">Alharamain Organization</a> ... and many other places. -- Note to jojo-sa: Do not post what amounts to a cut and paste of an entire article (or nearly so) from another website. You may use short quotes from articles on other websites -- with proper attribution -- or link to the articles which you wish to reference, as I have done. Thanks, --Don-- --------- --------- [ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

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01-23-2002, 01:31 AM	#2
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Qur'an 3:86 waman yabtigh ghaira l-islaami diinan falan yuqbala 'anhu wafi l-aakhirati yakuunu mina l-khaasiriin "And he who chooses a religion other than Islam, it shall never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the lost". Qur'an 3:169 wala tahsabanna alladhiina qutiluu fi sabiili llaahi amwaatan bal ahyaa'un 'inda rabbihim yurzaquun "And do not think of those who were killed in the path of Allah as dead, but alive, receiving sustenance from their Lord". Qur'an 43:74-77 inna l-mujrimiina fi 'adhaabi jahannama khaaliduun. la yufattaru 'anhum wahum fiihi mublisuun. wama zalamnaahum walaakin kaanuu humu z-zaalimiin. wanaadau yaamaaliku liyaqdi 'alaina rabbuka qaala innakum maakithuun. "Indeed the guilty are immortal in hell's torment. It is not relaxed for them, and they despair therein. We wronged them not, but they it was who did the wrong. And they cry: O master! Let thy Lord make an end of us. He saith: Lo! here ye must remain." You may think Islam is the religion which defends the mazloomeen (oppressed), but in fact, there is no more zaalim (oppressing) religion that Islam. <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/revelquran.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/revelquran.html</a>

01-23-2002, 03:09 AM	#3
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. Yes, I've noticed how well-run, safe, orderly and secure Muslim countries are. Michael

01-23-2002, 05:35 AM	#4
Euromutt Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Netherlands (the Kingdom of the Dammed) Posts: 687	Oh, this is familiar ground; since 11-Sep, I've read in I cannot remember how many places that "jihad" does not equate with "holy war." We know. We know, by now, that "jihad" means struggle in furtherance or defence of the tenets of Islam. It does not only mean "war." But "war" is one of the aspects, and for some reason it is the aspect that western society most comes into contact with. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the context the west has most heard the word "jihad" in, is when yet another mullah or sheikh proclaims a jihad against the infidels and follows it up with a couple of car bombs. I think we westerners may be forgiven for being leery of the term under those circumstances, as muslims may be forgiven for getting edgy when the term "crusade" is used in the West.

01-23-2002, 06:49 AM	#5
Born Free Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,177	I personally think the term "Fatwah" is more disturbing. <a href="http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~owend/interests/islam/fatwa.html" target="_blank">Fatwah</a>

01-23-2002, 08:21 AM	#7
Beelzebub Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 554	This is just the same old same old. Just like christians, all theist try this excuse. If anything bad was done by people who claim to be of my religion, they are not "true" christians, muslims, hindus,whoever. In the end, there is no excuse and no remedy but atheism.

01-23-2002, 08:46 AM	#8
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Hey, you f*king coward hit-and-run troll, come back here if you dare! I can beat you at Qur'anic quotations any day! Or else you're just another case of a would-be cyber-mujaahid* trying to get a status of shaheed without being hurt. Coward! ALLAHU AHBAL! Qul: huwa llaahu ahbal; Allahu t-tambal; lam ya'qil walam yu'qal walam yakun minhu ayyun aswal. (trans: "Say: He, Allah, is an idiot; Allah the stupid; not mindful nor minded, and there is no dafter than He". A spoof of Surat Al-Ikhlaas, of the Qur'an. Does it not qualify for a surah like those of the Qur'an? See, the Qur'an can be immitated! HAHAHAHAHA!)

01-23-2002, 08:43 PM	#9
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Same old apologetics. Jihad is mental striving. But since Mohommad definitely preferred physical striving truly good muslims should follow him. Islam rescued people who were oppressed. Yes, obviously the Jewish tribes in Arabia was crying out for a liberator, but for some odd reason insisted on fighting against their liberator. Same in every country muslims conquered. whenever a muslim brings up the issue of Israel, I ask him what about Kashmir? The Islamic militants have killed thousands of hindus and driven out more to make Kashmir pure, but somehow in muslim eyes it is not as important as Israel. Of course sometimes they argue, that it is because Kashmir wants independance, but they conviniently forget these murders and the fact that hindus over there don't want it. Also, if Kashmiris want to be free of heathen India, is is not amazing that the 'freedom fighters' include more Arabs and paid mercernaries than Kashmiris?

01-23-2002, 09:29 PM	#10
Triple Six Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: formerly Lae, Papua New Guinea Posts: 1,867	Compare this with jojo-sa's other (semi literate) posts and this is obviously a straight forward copy and paste job from some other author. So I'd like to know who really wrote this apologetic crap so they can read the the replies from our esteemed posters refuting the lies and distortions contained within it.

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