Biff the unclean

I find it interesting that one of the many religions that didn't consider "Salvation" necessary--in fact scorned their Pagan neighbors for thinking it was--was Judaism.

braces_for_impact

Perhaps magus would care to explain these:

Salvation by faith alone

Mk.16:16
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Jn.3:18, 36
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already .... He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Rom.1:16-17
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God salvation to every one that believeth .... As it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Rom.3:20
"By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."
Rom.3:28
"A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Rom.4:2
"For if Abraham were justified by works he hath whereof to glory?"
Rom.4:13
"For the promise ... was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."
Rom.5:1
"Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Gal.2:16
"A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."
Gal.3:11-12
"The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith."
Eph.2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

Salvation NOT by faith alone
Ps.62:12
"For you render to each one according to his works."
Jer.17:10
"I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
Mt.12:37
"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Mt.16:27
"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."
Mt.19:17
"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Lk.10:26-28
"He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."
Jn.5:29
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Rom.2:6, 13
"Who 'will render to each one according to his deeds'. For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified."
2 Cor.5:10
"For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."
2 Cor.11:15
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."
Jas.2:14
"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?"
Jas.2:17
"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
Jas.2:21-25
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
1 Pet.1:17
"The Father, who without pariality judges according to each one's work."

braces_for_impact

Oops, double post, sorry.

Magus55

Key word in many of the statements in your "salvation not only by faith" is justified. We are judged at the throne of judgement, based on our works in life. Your entire life will be laid out before God and if you are saved, He will show you what you did good in order to spread the Kingdom of God on Earth, and what you did wrong. If you aren't saved - He will show you why you aren't - and that none of your supposed good works meet up to His standards. No one will have an excuse when they stand before God at judgement.

Works are definately important, but they can't save you. For example, Jesus says to enter life, keep the commandments. Whats the first commandment? Love God above all else. Thats kind of a requirement in order to have faith in God that he sent His Son down to die for your sins. If you didn't follow the commandments, why would you be asking for salvation anyway? Once you are saved, you will have a strong desire to obey Jesus, and follow His commandments - because He asks us to.

The meaning of faith without works is dead, is if you have no desire or goal to turn from your sin, and follow Jesus' teachings - where is your faith? How can someone who claims to have faith in Jesus, and claims to want to live a sinless life - go out and purposely do things Jesus commanded us not to do?

Biff the unclean

Surely as you type this out you must know it is meaningless double talk

Llyricist

George Orwell did not make up the concept of doublethink out of thin air. The idea that people actually internalize contradictory thoughts was based on things he actually saw

Mageth

Ease up, guys. Magus' last post is totally appropriate given the title of this thread. I suspect he was just being nice in giving us such an excellent example.

Taffer

You say that as if changing beliefs is about as insignificant and easy an action as changing clothes. News flash: It isn't.

Magus, please tell me this was a joke.

Are you truly so incapable of recognizing other people's positions that you can't see some of your own position mirrored in a fellow christian?

Sabine Grant

Bonjour Magus...... what do you suppose Christ implied when he warned his self proclaimed followers ( Matthew) that he will still separate sheep from goats and declare " depart from me for I know you not"? he then clarifies how a self proclaimed believer( no matter how much belief on Christ he may have) is to DEMONSTRATE that belief.
Can we maintain that belief is the only criteria Christ will use to discern who is a "sheep" and who is a "goat"? Faith is to be highly productive to be validated as authentic faith.
And is it authenticity Christ is concerned with.....his clarification is not based on abiding to the Law or avoiding sin. It is based on treating others how we would treat him in person.
Christ requires a demonstration of our love to him by how we demonstrate this love to others. No intellectualization required. No the " only way to be saved" apologetic theology.
Simply projecting onto others the love we claim to have for him.

Rousseau_CHN

Today is father's day, in my part of the world. And the thing that bothers me about Father's day, Mother's day, Christmas and the likes is that it comes just once in a year. It bothers me that these occasions, instead of highlighting these values: respect for parents (Mother and Father's day) and Sharing (Christmas day), trivializes them except on that special day. I would be the laughingstock, should I give someone a gift on, say, January 14. It isn't even Christmas, you idiot.

Now, I believe that the whole problem of judegement day is that it happens just once: on the end of days. It just struck me that we should be judging ourselves every single day of our lives.