manderguy

I know I've seen evidence that Lincoln wasn't the sort of Good Christian that some insist he was, but the search function didn't pull up any old threads.

What do people have at their finger tips?

Thanks.

manderguy

dangin

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
-- Abraham Lincoln, to Judge JS. Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's death

This is a particularly telling quote as it comes after the death of a child. A time when many would search for comfort from a deity.

Toto

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000617&p=" target="_blank">"Under God" in Gettysburg address an urban legend?</a> has some relevant quotes and links.

Radcliffe Emerson

Lincoln wasn't Xtian AT ALL. Here is a quote from him:

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." Abraham Lincoln

Living Dead Chipmunk

Give him a bottle of Febreeze and he could kick God's ass.

TerriNPA

Where is your source for this quote? THANKS

(I hate to quote famous people unless I can point people in the direction of where and what I got the quote from)

Toto

It looks like another quote that is patched together and echoed repeatedly about the internet. It is something that is compatible with what Lincoln believed, but it's not clear he used those words.

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

Quoted in Salvation for Sale: An Insider's View of Pat Robertson, Gerard Thomas Straub

I don't have Straub's book handy, but for more information about him, read this. (He is a television producer and not a historian.)

Positive Atheism is a usually reliable source:

Lincoln, the Freethinker pub 1924, contains the first half of the quote:

(see the comment here about the reliability of Lewis) The Positive Atheism list of Lincoln quotes is here

Radorth

Actually Dangin, tragedy tends to make people turn more toward or more away from God, so Willies proximate death is not meaningful here.

If you want to learn things like "Washington never mentioned Jesus Christ."

It's amarvel all those bigoted Christians voted for an atheist anti-slavery candidate like Lincoln, ain't it? Did Ingersoll's little helpers stuff the ballot box or what?

Lincoln must have been quite confused:



It is said to be one of the admonitions of our lord, "As your father in heaven is perfect, be ye also perfect." The Saviour, I suppose, did not expect any human being could be perfect as the Father in heaven....but he set that up as a standard, and he who did most toward reaching that standard achieved the highest degree of moral perfection. (Lincoln-Douglas Debates-July 10, 1858)


And I do hereby invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and those who are sojourning in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a national day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent father who dwells in the heavens... It has seemed to me fit and proper that God should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged, as with one heart and one voice, by the whole American people."

In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, I believe the Bible is the best gift God has given to man. All the good Saviour gave to the world has been communicated through this book. But for this book we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it. (Lincoln to "The Committe of Colored People from Baltimore" who had presented him with a Bible, Sept 5 1864)

By 1864, he must have been getting senile, or like Washington and Franklin, saw the "invisible hand" at work once too often.

Rad

Buffman

Radorth

In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, I believe the Bible is the best gift God has given to man. All the good Saviour gave to the world has been communicated through this book. But for this book we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it. (Lincoln to "The Committe of Colored People from Baltimore" who had presented him with a Bible, Sept 5 1864)

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewis07.htm


(Extract)
This statement is a lie, the enormity of which I am unable to express. To say that Lincoln said this is too ridiculous for notice, and yet when uttered by a clergyman it is taken to be true. It is utterly impossible that Lincoln, who openly doubted the truth of the Bible and questioned the legitimacy of the birth of Christ, should utter such a puerile statement, especially to a group of people representing a race that had been so mercilessly subjected to a condition of servitude because of the Bible's precepts. Out of courtesy, Lincoln may have thanked the little group of well-meaning Negroes for their gift, yet thinking in his heart what fools they were to take $500 of their heard-earned money and waste it upon the very instrument that was the greatest obstacle in their struggle for emancipation.
(End extract)

(ADDED)

It is said to be one of the admonitions of our lord, "As your father in heaven is perfect, be ye also perfect." The Saviour, I suppose, did not expect any human being could be perfect as the Father in heaven....but he set that up as a standard, and he who did most toward reaching that standard achieved the highest degree of moral perfection. (Lincoln-Douglas Debates-July 10, 1858)

http://www.bartleby.com/251/1003.html

(Extract)
My friend has said to me that I am a poor hand to quote Scripture. I will try it again, however. It is said in one of the admonitions of our Lord, “As your Father in Heaven is perfect, be ye also perfect.” The Saviour, I suppose, did not expect that any human creature could be perfect as the Father in Heaven; but He said, “As your Father in Heaven is perfect, be ye also perfect.” He set that up as a standard; and he who did most toward reaching that standard, attained the highest degree of moral perfection. So I say in relation to the principle that all men are created equal, let it be as nearly reached as we can. If we cannot give freedom to every creature, let us do nothing that will impose slavery upon any other creature. Let us then turn this Government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it. Let us stand firmly by each other. If we do not do so we are turning in the contrary direction, that our friend Judge Douglas proposes—not intentionally—as working in the traces tend to make this one universal slave nation. He is one that runs in that direction, and as such I resist him.
(End extract)

Radorth

I suppose he didn't utter his First Inaugural either.

Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him who has never yet forsaken this favored land, are still competent to adjust in the best way all our present difficulty. (Lincoln, First Inaugural)



"That I am not a member of a Christain church is true, but I have never denied the truth of the scriptures, and I have never spoke with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular..."(Illinois Gazette, Aug 15, 1846)


This is the dumbest, most patronizing, presumptious, tendentious, revisionist statement I've ever seen here. So "negroes" weren't Christians then?

HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

My my. Or maybe they didn't surrepticiously blame Jesus for all their problems?

Rad