emotional

For that to be possible, the theistic religions will have to relinquish their binary division of the world into "servants of God" and "tools of Satan".

One may say, "what does it concern you that they believe you will burn in hell for eternity? Live for yourself and let them keep to their stupid beliefs". Would it were that simple. Such beliefs as that certain people are damned in hell are not just harmless ideas, they are air-poison. The moment you believe someone is hell-bound, or a tool of Satan, or even just "wallowing in ignorance", co-existence has little chance.

I don't hate just fundamentalism, I hate theistic religion as a whole, even the so-called "liberal" branches. Belief in the evil God of monotheism should be eradicated for the good of humankind. Plus, I can't stand the idea of people worshipping the same God who, if he exists, supervised the Holocaust of 6 million Jews. That's as preposterous as worshipping Hitler. Those who worship God truly hurt my feelings, and I can have no co-existence with them.

Samhain

devnet:

Posts like yours make me fear for my life just on the basis that I was once, previously, a theist.

emotional

I was once a theist too. We've both recanted of worshipping the evil God, so we're clean. The trouble is those who still obstinately do so.

The right of "holy rage" is in no way a monopoly of the theists. It's time the heathens raged, and declared blasphemous and hurtful any worship of God. "Thou shalt not pray in my neighbourhood - because it hurts my feelings".

HelenM

But if they are UUs they can't be real Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs and Muslims!

HelenM

Yeah but then your feelings become 'god' and that isn't right either...

love
Helen

case

Baalthazaq:

I have to agree with Samhain. I started this thread with more of a general question in mind. I too have theistic friends, with whom I regularly debate theistic topics with, but remain friends with. I don't think anyone would honestly think that a theist and non-theist could have a meaningful peacefull relationship.

Well, except maybe for devnet, but I think most of us aren't extremists.

NOGO, I agree that the Catholic Church has made some progress in its attitude toward non-believers. But I still think the world is predominatly theistic. Try this: walk down any street, and stop any person, and ask them to give you a brief explanation of evolution. Then ask them to recount the biblical story of creation. I think you will find far more people who can give you to creation story than can explain evolution.

Is this a definitive proof? Not by a long shot, but I think it demonstrates that, while the world has grown more secular friendly, its still more thesiticlly oriented.

devnet...um...hmm...I would seriously consider visiting the logic page. The area on bifutrification. Give it a look. Then get back to us.

emotional

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Live a few years surrounded by theists (lots of Orthodox Jews and Sunni Muslims) and you'll see how hard it is to avoid becoming an "extremist". They start buying one house, then advance to the rest of the neighbourhood, and then, before you know it, you have a municipal law prohibiting driving on Saturday or eating non-kosher.

Bifurcation, you mean. I've read that section long ago. I know there are alternatives besides atheism and theism - deism, polytheism, agnosticism and so forth. I didn't divide the world into atheists and theists, I only said theism is bad and has to be wiped out. The same thing you would say about cancer, ya know.

And don't forget the emotional charge: theists praise the same God who, if he exists, supervised the extermination of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust (including my grandparents' families). Why should I respect that? Why should I tolerate that? It's very offensive to me, and I want all worship of that evil demon to stop as soon as possible!

Do not wish to be associated w/ II

Emmm- Much as Devnet's attitude re. theists is a bit extreme- part of me totally agrees with him. Wouldn't that be an absolute hoot? The look on the Christian's face when the worm eventually turns! ~ "Hahaha- WE tried NOT allowing our emotions cloud our actions, but you pushed us too far! I think it was the 'you only need to feel Jesus in your heart' that did it!"- &lt;insert maniacal Jack Nicholson type laughter&gt;

Alas, we secular humanists aren't reknowned for using torture and intimidation to get our point across- the theists excell in THAT department.

case

devnet:

Right. Bifurcation. Spelling was never my strong suit. I think there is a slight difference between getting rid of theism and getting rid of theists. While I certainly am not opposed of getting rid of the former, I am opposed to the latter. While I may not like certain people because of their views, I'm not about consider wiping them out. If that were the case, why would we be any better than extremists who believe in wiping out infidels?

emotional

No, I meant getting rid of the theists by getting rid of theism, not the other way round. Deconversion to non-theism, that's what I mean. By ramming atheism into their thick skulls just as much as they do with their godspam, IGWT, Ten Commandments and all those paraphernalia.

My attitude is this: two can play that game. A religious Jew wouldn't allow me to eat milk with meat in his house, right? OK, so I won't let him praise God in my house. Tit for tat. A rabbi would require that I put a yarmulke (skullcap) on my head when I pay a visit to his house? OK, on condition that he takes off the yarmulke when he comes to mine. Symmetry must be!

Of course, I'm willing to compromise in times of need. I wouldn't reject a religious girl who took a liking to me...