case

About, oh say, once a day, I am faced with one of the following scenarios:

"Your an agnostic? I see..."

Or:

"If you don't believe in God, why do you care so
much about religion?"

Or, my personal favorite:

"You don't believe in God?! Don't you know you're
going to hell?!"

As a former militant atheist turned agnostic, I find my responses to these scenarios growing more diplomatic by the day, my responses taking on a routine form. And yet, still the scenarios. Always. I imagine that in a perfect world people would respond to my agnosticism with something like:

"That's nice. I'm a Methodist, but I find some
of your arguements compelling."

Or:

"Me too. Are you a strict agnostic or empirical?"

Or:

"That's cool. Got any gum?"

But, this isn't a perfect world, and such answers, at least where I am, are the exception, not the rule. Which makes me wonder: to what degree can theists and non-theists understand each other? To what degree can we peacefully coexist?

My first inclination is that we can. My Catholic girlfriend would certainly agree. And yet, I find myself doubting this position at times. My first thought upon being told I'm going to hell, and I'm a sinner, is to laugh. I force myself to smile and say, "Thank you for your advice, but I don't believe in hell". Sometimes I can't stand it, and laugh anyway. To err is human, to forgive is...well, difficult.

In this strange world that we live in, with countless possibilities open, is it possible for theists and non-theists to find some middle ground? Or is it doomed to failure from the start? Perhaps, as the saying goes, there are some men you just can't reach.

I realize that this issue is extremely complex. I'm not even certain I could give an acceptable definition of "peacefully coexist", let alone solve the issue. I would be happy with not killing each other, but theists seem to have enough trouble with that. I'd be glad to get some imput on this subject, and see where the thread goes.

Tusitala

Yep, we have been doing so for years.

It works fine so long as we don't shove our beliefs (or lack of them) down each other's throats.

sighhswolf

I would think with average people, the religious
inclinations would not make an impossible to breech rift.
But what we must remember is that Christians have a mandate to preach the gospel and make converts.
They will, based on doctrine, try their best to
convert atheists and agnostics to christianity.
Usually if they fail, they will continue on to the next missionary attempt.
It seems to be the exception rather than the rule when christians and non-believers remain friends
and display tolerance for each other after a failed attempt at conversion.
I have always been amazed that people can work together every day, coexist and actually develop
a team concept, and become friends.
That is as long as the topic of religious beliefs remains unspoken.
But immediately after a conversation regarding religious preferences results in a difference of opinion, there usually develops a mistrust and disdain for those who do not subscribe to the christian lifestyle.
These people are close, a friendship and a working relationship without the labels of faith.
But as soon as those labels are assigned, that relationship hits the skids.
Granted, it doesnt always work that way, but there are too many times when it does.
The christian says we have to preach to you as a non-believer and turn you to god, that is our charge.
And the non-believer says Nope, not interested.
People you think you know can fool you when it comes to religious beliefs, and the emotions associated with those beliefs.

As was already mentioned, I have no problem with
christians or any other organized religions as long as they do not try to impose their beliefs and lifestyle on me and my family.
The problem is they just cant help themselves, they have to preach, and they have to try and make converts and in doing so they alienate non-believers and impose on the rights of every citizen to worship or NOT worship any way they want.
I wonder how all the kids in our school system feel as Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Taoists when the president of the United States declares this
nation to be a "christian" nation founded on christian principles??
The US has a rich diversity of ethnic and cultural backgrounds yet our leaders flaunt christianity in the faces of all who reside in this country.

Wolf

Bree

As stated by the more eloquent members above: yes, we can coexist peacefully. It's too bad that the "peace" (as it is right now) is usually maintained thanks to silence and tolerance by atheists and agnostics. As case mentioned, our responses to the "you're going to hell" bit are usually limited to inane responses (I like the "That's cool. Got any gum?" line) - if we try to engage in friendly banter or educate in any way, things usually get heated...or you end up going round and round in circles.

As sighhswolf said - if the Fundies can keep their praise Jeebus bit to themselves, then all the better for us!

IvanK

I'm married to a Catholic, so ask me again in a few years. Personally I'm hoping the answer is yes.

Eudaimonist

Isn't it ironic that in order for atheists and theists to get along, atheists typically are the ones who have to act like saints?

ChrisJ

This country was founded by such a coalition...Christians such as Washington and Franklin worked hand in hand with Rationalists such as Jefferson.

Godless Dave

The reason Christianity bothers me more than any other religion is that prosyletizing and converting others are such a major part of the religion. I mean, I don't believe in the Wiccan gods, but no Wiccan has approached me and told me they have all the answers, and I'm going to hell if I don't accept it. Ditto Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus. Of course fundamentalist Hindus are causing all kinds of trouble in India, but at least they don't send Hindu missionaries all over the world trying to convert people.

So I think theists and non-theists can peacefully coexist, but I'm not too sure about Christian theists peacefully coexisting with anybody (including each other!)

IvanK

About the only evidence for Washington's Christianity is that he was a church vestryman who, oddly, rarely attended church services. Ditto, Franklin, who apart from moving that sessions of the Constitutional Convention begin with prayer (a motion that his collegues gently tabled to avoid the embarrassment of having to publicly humiliate Franklin by defeating) and occasional vague mentions of some deity held few beliefs that a modern Christian would recognize. Wasn't it Ben who came up with the idea that each star including our Sun had its own local demiurge responsible for the workings of that particular solar system?

SharonDee

Sure, atheists and theists can get along just fine. They just have to NOT talk about gods.

What of the non-Christian theist? By and large, I don't deal that much with them for reasons already stated in this thread: no proselytizing, no eternal damnation, etc. Christians are often the shared worst enemy of atheists and non-Cs. Also, non-Judeo-Christians are damned hard to find IRL.

What I find disconcerting, though, are the times I've run across the non-JC theist who treats me as if I'm too stupid to understand them since they're not Christians. It's as if I'm castigated for having once been a Christian because that's the only theism with which I'm familiar.

One person in particular has posited that atheists shouldn't debate theists because they are "ignorant" of spiritual matters. I don't think I'm as ignorant as I am inexperienced with the "real thing."

I don't know why I'm bugged by this. But I am.

Shit, I lost my point. *sigh*