David Bowden

My story comes from a few months ago. Walking home late at night we were approached by a very persistent panhandler who at one point asked us if I was a Christian man.

"NO, sir!" I boomed, surprising myself since I'm characteristically softspoken.

His response, muttered under his breath: "This is gonna be a little harder than I thought..."

And Panta Pei, this is classic; I thought I was reading a George Carlin transcript:

I agree about the "principle of fairness." It's your home, after all. No false gods allowed!

When my very traditional Christian mom visits, she actually asks if it's alright if she prays over the meal, and of course we wouldn't dream of telling her "No." But she always prays silently, and my wife and I just hold hands for a moment; sometimes we'll make eyes or something quietly irreverent. In exchange for her politeness, I don't bring up (anti-)religious issues in her home.

That mutual respect saves us a lot of headaches; I wish more folks could see it that way.

-Wanderer

[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: wide-eyed wanderer ]</p>

Hedwig

Scombrid and Panta Pei: you're both my new personal heroes!

Bree

You make me ashamed of myself. Today I was so f*cking hungry I ended up buying a brat from a group of 8 year olds raising money for a mission in New York City.

I said "wow, I've never had a Luthern brat" and when faced with blank stares (hey, they were under the age of 10) I said, "what, you didn't know food had religious affiliation? Talk to a Jew, sometime" and walked away.

Panta Pei

Since we seem to have screwed up in reverse and turned a perfectly good rant into a legitimate misc. religious discussion let me provide a post event analysis regarding my spontaneous meal utterance for both theist and non-theist review.

My in-laws, who, for nearly 10 years have considered me of sound virtue and morality are now brimming with venom at my lack of consideration.

I outed myself as an atheist to 'the sister' two years ago after she kept sending me 'food for thought' proseletyzing spam which I soundly refuted time after time (some of my best early work I might add )

She finally relented and offered to only debate/discuss the issue of religion via email and I agreed (my theory being that it is hard to carry around a strong's concordance at all times when called to refute the blatant horrors, errors, etc., of any bible version). She also promptly stopped sending me email, go figure.

Since then we have visited them in IL five times as my wife is very close to her oldest sister. During each visit, I remained aloof at all personal ritualistic practices her family would perform and would offer no perspective of my own as per our agreement. Each time, I traveled to 'their church' with my wife (who, BTW, does not attend church ordinarily <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> )

Yeah, alright, so I sang the words to "A grazing Mace" from my old SCA days, but only my wife picked up on it

Anyway, they recently fell into some free sky miles and decided to come down south for a visit as most of their old friends and family are in the Biloxi area. As usual, I was hip deep in active investigations and could not take any days off while they were down. I could only offer an afternoon grill-out the day before they were to return. The rest you now know.

To wrap up...

1. The wife's still pissed, D-word issued, principle of fairplay completely dismissed in favor of demonizing me.

2. I'm out numbered by her family (mine live in CA) who cast unhealthy dispersions at my simple act even after years of my reflected tolerance.

3. Phone bill does not provide any assurances of impartiality.

Now, will someone please express to me some rational explanation as to why I am considered the complete and utter a-hole in the face of these facts.

I'm always for reasonable compromise, but, where is the common ground?

(NOTE to theists: I am fully aware of Matthew 10: 34-37, thanks anyway )

PS Thanks to each and every post of support ~ day/made

&lt;ah, crap, was that a rant?!?&gt;

Tusitala

Panta Pei - since you're now getting your hand smacked, what I would like to know is - (with the benefit of hindsight) would you change anything if presented with the same set of circumstances again?

The way I see it, you can't win. Hopefully the bad times will pass soon.

Tusi

Panta Pei

"Panta Pei - since you're now getting your hand smacked, what I would like to know is - (with the benefit of hindsight) would you change anything if presented with the same set of circumstances again?"

Outstanding question and one I hadn't even pondered given my lack of time-bending abilities

Hypothetically considered, however, I would have to say absolutely not...it was, to be sure, an unexpected 'kodak moment'.

I am, however, most disturbed and disappointed by the current domestic mindset and behavior toward me.

How does one principled act bring about such contempt?

"The way I see it, you can't win. Hopefully the bad times will pass soon."

I have to agree.

I'm still just chapped that I was not afforded the same respect I have shown over the years. And even worse, they committed the violation, yet I have become the pariah.

I'm going for a ride

FreeToThink

Panta Pei,

When you say it was your in-laws that you had this interaction with, was it just your sister in law and her husband or also your wife's parents that were there? I am not sure from your post. That would seem to make a difference to me.

FreeToThink

And to answer your question, the reason they now hold you in contempt is that your statement challenged their worldview at its very core.

And since there isn't really some magic super ghost running around in their little "hearts" that somehow makes them super nice and loving, they are reacting like any normal person would when challenged - in anger. Once again proving that Xianity is nothing more than a social club.

Panta Pei

FreeToThink:

Thanks for the response.

I'm not entirely clear as to why it would make a difference, however, their Mother is a widow and was also present. She is the original fundamental baptist matriarch, however, is less 'in your face' than her oldest daughter.

I suppose your assessment is correct.

What keeps running through my head is that I probably would still be in the same position if I had made it as much of an issue at their house those many years ago.

Lose/Lose for me, it would appear.

Well, I never liked the farm much anyway

Looks like I'll be CA bound this summer

[ June 04, 2002: Message edited by: Panta Pei ]</p>

Godless Dave

Panta, while your story made me laugh, the "There is no god, amen" was pretty flip. I think it would have been more respectful if you had just said "We don't do that at this house" when your SIL prompted her husband to say Grace. That's what I think; your family would probably be equally pissed.

IME, not participating in their religious practices is the same as mocking their religion, as far as many fundies are concerned.