Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shake · 09-25-2002, 07:59 AM

Wow! I did a search on 'Infidels' just to see what came up, and of course, the SecWeb was #1, but a close second was <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08002b.htm" target="_blank">this.</a> I particularly enjoyed this:

Quote:

The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews, Mohammedans; strictly speaking it may be used of catechumens also, though in early ages they were called Christians; for it is only through baptism that one can enter into the ranks of the faithful. Those however who have been baptized but do not belong to the Catholic Church, heretics and schismatics of divers confessions are not called infidels but non-Catholics.

There's other good stuff below, but I won't spoil it for you here.

ohwilleke · 09-25-2002, 09:06 AM

Quote:

As in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized. The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews, Mohammedans; strictly speaking it may be used of catechumens also, though in early ages they were called Christians; for it is only through baptism that one can enter into the ranks of the faithful. Those however who have been baptized but do not belong to the Catholic Church, heretics and schismatics of divers confessions are not called infidels but non-Catholics. The relation in which all these classes stand to the Catholic Church is not the same; in principle, those who have been baptized are subjects of the Church and her children even though they be rebellious children; they are under her laws or, at least, are exempt from them only so far as pleases the Church.

[Emphasis added]

One of the odd implications of this theory is that atheists who have been baptized are heretical, non-Catholics, who are sinners, while atheists who have not been baptized are infidels and deserve better treatment.

sakrilege · 09-25-2002, 11:02 AM

WHAT?? I'm NOT an infidel?? I was baptized but now renounce the faith therefore I can't (per the church) call myself an indidel!! I'm just a non-catholic.

Boo hoo

Ab_Normal · 09-25-2002, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sakrilege:
WHAT?? I'm NOT an infidel?? I was baptized but now renounce the faith therefore I can't (per the church) call myself an indidel!! I'm just a non-catholic.

Boo hoo

I'm in the same boat. But at least we're still infidels to Muslims.

Chicken Girl · 09-25-2002, 11:34 AM

Those however who have been baptized but do not belong to the Catholic Church, heretics and schismatics of divers confessions are not called infidels but non-Catholics.

No fair!! I was baptized as a Methodist!!

Just 'cause I got a little holy water on my head when I was a baby, I can't call myself an infidel??

Who made up these rules anyway?

sakrilege · 09-25-2002, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ab_Normal:
.. at least we're still infidels to Muslims.

Whew, thanks for that perspective. I feel better now.

And it does say we can be heretics.

[ September 25, 2002: Message edited by: sakrilege ]

Shake · 10-01-2002, 12:21 PM

Quote:

But at least we're still infidels to Muslims

HAHAHA! Good one!

Upon further reflection, I realize that I am not an infidel under this definition either. Nor are my wife and (on her insistence) my 22 month old son. Damn that baptism!

Anyway, I'd defend my son's baptism by saying that we got to see some out-of-state friends and relatives. Plus my son got some $$$ out of it (yes, it's in the bank for college savings). I also didn't strongly oppose it since I believe it was little more than a late morning bath for him. Besides, he won't remember it. My wife's not a strong believer either, but she's in the no harm, no foul boat, e.g. what if they (Xians) are right?

I ate Pascal's Wafer · 10-01-2002, 02:53 PM

Well Goddammit, I'm not an infidel either according to Catholics.

It's not good enough that I'm an infidel as far as Islam is concerned. I want to be an infidel to all these religions. Grr!!

Oh well, I suppose I can be happy with being a heretic. I'll learn to cope.

-Nick

dunnjen · 10-01-2002, 03:31 PM

Ooh,ooh,ooh. Now I know I'm a true infidel. Maybe there can now be a private "True Infidels Only" forum. Too bad all you lowly heretics.

Sephiroth · 10-01-2002, 06:10 PM

Quote:

The relation in which all these classes stand to the Catholic Church is not the same; in principle, those who have been baptized are subjects of the Church and her children even though they be rebellious children; they are under her laws or, at least, are exempt from them only so far as pleases the Church.

Pleases the Church? Idiots, why can't they just accept that some ex-Catholics (like me) want nothing to do with them anymore? The arrogance

.

Pardon the rant but that paragraph struck a nerve.

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09-25-2002, 11:02 AM	#3
sakrilege Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Folding@Home Godless Team Posts: 6,211	WHAT?? I'm NOT an infidel?? I was baptized but now renounce the faith therefore I can't (per the church) call myself an indidel!! I'm just a non-catholic. Boo hoo

09-25-2002, 11:34 AM	#5
Chicken Girl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 6,549	Those however who have been baptized but do not belong to the Catholic Church, heretics and schismatics of divers confessions are not called infidels but non-Catholics. No fair!! I was baptized as a Methodist!! Just 'cause I got a little holy water on my head when I was a baby, I can't call myself an infidel?? Who made up these rules anyway?

10-01-2002, 02:53 PM	#8
I ate Pascal's Wafer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,460	Well Goddammit, I'm not an infidel either according to Catholics. It's not good enough that I'm an infidel as far as Islam is concerned. I want to be an infidel to all these religions. Grr!! Oh well, I suppose I can be happy with being a heretic. I'll learn to cope. -Nick

10-01-2002, 03:31 PM	#9
dunnjen Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: GA Posts: 10	Ooh,ooh,ooh. Now I know I'm a true infidel. Maybe there can now be a private "True Infidels Only" forum. Too bad all you lowly heretics.

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