spurly

This is an interesting question, and I would like to take a crack at it from the Christian perspective.

It was decided before the beginning of time that Jesus would die for us so that those who believe in the grace and forgiveness offered at the cross could live.

Why was this necessary? It was necessary because God is not only a God of love, but he is also a God of justice. From the beginning, the penalty for sin was death. When Adam and Eve sinned, a sacrifice was made for them by God himself as he clothed them in animal's skins.

All throughout history, the same principles applied. God is a God of love, and his love drives him to have a relationship with us. However, he is also a God of holiness, and his holiness kept him at arm's length from us because of our sin. Something had to be done to restore the relationship that God desired to have with his creatures. But God's justice required that the penalty of death be paid for our sin. So God set up a system of substitutionary atonement. An unblemished lamb, bull, goat, pigeons, etc., could take the penalty for the person that sinned. The highlight sacrifice of the year occurred on the Day of Atonement when the sins of the entire nation of Israel were laid on two goats - one was sacrificed for the sins of the people, and the other was led out into the wilderness to illustrate the fact that God had removed his people's sins far from them.

But all this simply looked forward to the final sacrifice that would be made once and for all to take away the barrier between God and the people he loved - the completely perfect sacrifice of Christ. And when he died on the cross, God laid all of our sins on him. That way his justice was satisfied, and he could have a relationship of love with his children who chose to live in that relationship with him.

So as you can see, the idea of substitionary atonement is a beautiful picture that has been with us from the beginning.

I hope this helps.

Kevin

Radorth

I do give credit to him. I always have because I don't even have a degree and yet I am able to invent, design and analyze a wide range of things as if I had a priori knowledge. In any case if a person's will is subject to God's (actual) will, I think he facilitates their lives in ways that are not rationally explicable, and which I attribute particularly to his grace.

Rad

Yellum Notnef

Nope. Not at all,but thanks for at least having a consitent story and including some of our favorite old time bible characters.

Radorth

Obviously, which only makes you appear more the hypocritical nitpicker. And why aren't my beliefs entirely relevant, and why all the wasted bandwidth, even after I admitted I should have been more clear? Again you are simply trying to justify yourself and make me look bad. I'm sure that is the case, otherwise it would not have come this far.

And my question about you fitting your own definition of a liar remains unanswered as I'm sure it always will be.

I never said I was "incapable of sin." I said "pretty much." You see, I can pick nits too Daggah.

I've got an idea. Since we waste so much time with this crap, how about we agree not to speak to each or about each other again, and put each other on the ignore list? OK?

Rad

Daggah

No, Radorth.

Picking your posts apart is too much fun, even if you're too dense to realize that your rambling is completely unconvincing.

And as a matter of fact, it's pretty odd of you to ask why I continued this little debate when you attacked me during your confession, as if your being contradictory, unclear, and unable to read questions posed to you in their entirity was MY fault!

Daggah

Well, judging from the drivel you've posted on the subject of evolution, apparently Jesus didn't see fit to provide you with "a priori knowledge" of biology, eh?

winstonjen

Wow. What a great sacrifice.

/sarcasm off

Actually, Adam and Eve probably made a larger sacrifice than god, because they couldn't live forever, and they were kicked out from a perfect place. And the sacrifice for the animal skins would have to be made by the animals themselves, natually. Adam and Eve would have clothed themselves.

Sacrifice made by god: ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.

I agree. A nice fairy tale now and again always helps.

Yellum Notnef

Well thats odd because I`m the same way and people all my life have called me a genius (you`d never know it from my hideous grammar),but I don`t necessarily think Jesus was a real person nevermind a divine god.

Why haven`t we reached the same conclusions about your religion? Oh thats right,it`s my pride that clouds the truth.

Radorth

It's a type of covering for sin. The OT is full of such types of Christ.

Take a Zen course. You might get it someday.

Really? You mean "picking single assertions unrelated to the thread apart and making other irrelevant derogatory comments" don't you?

I didn't say it was your fault. I suggested you are a liar and a hypocrite according to your own definition. Time to pay the piper there bub.

Nice dodge though.

Rad

Daggah

Normally being a liar involves making untrue statements.

Since I haven't made any here, I guess that clears me of that charge.

Also, it's neat that you've discovered how to turn around the accusations made against your posts onto others, but just because you can, doesn't mean you're right to do so. What was I dodging again?

What's next, is Amie going to come in here crying about Radorth's treatment here?