midnight

To the powers that be feel free to move thread if need be. I'm not so good with the categorizing or spelling. . . .

Any how I was at the coffee shop chatting with a couple of friends. And our respective religious beliefs came up. I stated I was atheist. I kind of resented the fact that they seemed to think I was atheist due to a lack of better choices. A few times they asked if it was just because I hadn't found something that really spoke to me. Well hell ya I found something that spoke to me. Atheism.

I also went through my explanation of atheism and agnoticism. I don't think there is much of a distinction in principle but a big one in practice. I went through the actual meaning of the words. Atheist . . . lack of belief. . . and agnostic . . . lack of knowledge. I'm fairly proud of myself for being repectful of their views (christian and muslim) but at the same time I didn't truncate my views or opinions.

Straight Hate

The delight in outing yourself to others is the unpredictability in how they're going to react. I've learned living in Manitoba's bible belt for the past couple of years that no demographic responds in a uniform way.

Feels good making yourself known, though, doesn't it?

Grad Student Humanist

I think it's just the opposite. I think that atheism and agnosticism are different in principle, but I see no practical difference between atheism, agnosticism, deism or pantheism.

I'm curious as to what you see as the differences between atheism and agnosticism in practice?

midnight

Well I think its a regional difference. Most agnostics I run into in this area consider themselves theists. . . . their christians that don't go to church. Uggg. . . . I guess they tend to think there is a message to live by in the good book but admit that claiming to know something for sure isn't feasible.

How do you think they are different in principle?

Entropic_Gnosis

As an agnostic atheist i would take issue with the "christians who don't go to church" bit. While i suppose i am still officially catholic ( i should look into be excommunicated) i dont hold belief of any kind in an anthropomorphic deity. As far as "known gods" go, I am athistic. However it seems to me to be slightly arrogant to claim that i KNOW there are no deities of any kind. This is why i am an agnostic. For all i know a deistic god could exist, there would be no evidence as they dont get involved in the universe, the universe itself could be tearmed a "god" in a sense but those sort of things are unknowable.

Jacey

Maybe this'll get some action here.........

(wow, my first move as a mod, I'm so proud......)

Grad Student Humanist

In principle, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God, and an agnostic is someone who either doesn't know if God exists, or believes it's impossible to know if God exists. I believe these are the most common definitions of atheist and agnostic, but I've also encountered terms such as "weak atheist" and "strong atheist" which makes it difficult to simply classify people as agnostic or atheist.

In any case, I've never met an agnostic who considered himself a theist as you describe. In fact, if someone considered themselves a theist I wouldn't consider them an agnostic. I think you're just describing lazy Xtians, or Xtians who are, for one reason or another, fed up with their religion yet still cling to the idea of God. I wouldn't call them agnostics.

My beliefs are similar to those expressed by Entropic_Gnosis in this thread. While I find it improbable that a God exists, I won't rule it out completely. It's possible that a deist God exists, and it's also possible that a God exists whose characteristics have never been described by any of the thousands of religions/mythologies in this world and who has always concealed himself from human perception (and always will). I do reject the God concepts of the major religions like Judaism, Xtianity and Islam because they make specific claims about their God which are unverifiable and unlikely.

But though I am an agnostic, I live my life as if God doesn't exist. That is why, in practical terms, I see no difference between agnostic and atheist.

Evil Milkman

midnight,

I commend you for being open about your lack of belief.

I too consider myself to be an agnostic-atheist. I am partly agnostic because I can't know (knowledge), and atheist because I simply don't believe (belief).

midnight

I used to identify as an agnotic atheist but I think its a bit redundant. I define atheism as a lack of belief not a disbelief. I lack belief because I lack knowledge (agnoticism). I'm an atheist due to a lack of some knowledge and possesion of other knowledge like christian history, etc. I don't disbelieve the existence of some greater reality/being/etc because I can no more prove the nonexistence of such a being than I can prove the existence.

I don't think agnostics are non-church going christians. It just something that seems to be common here to identify ones self as agnostic when your actually some form of christian. :banghead:

I just live my life. I don't think it would affect me one bit if the existence/non-existence of some greater reality/being/etc was proved. I'd go right on living as I always have.

midnight

::highfive:: good first move. Much appreciated I'll figure these categories out eventually