Vicar Philip

What's new in infidel land?

It's nice and quiet at the Vicar household. My wife has pretty much accepted my beliefs, as she often makes statements like "I know you don't believe in them, but I think such-and-such was a miracle," or "I know you don't think prayer works, but I prayed about this and it seemed to get better." I have then calmly and rationally told her why such-and-such probably wasn't a miracle, and that if praying made her feel better, more power to her. We haven't had any heated discussions lately.

Tomorrow we are going to the Methodist church in town, the one we left. She volunteered to make vegetable beef soup for a benefit they're having to send kids to summer camp. My two boys went to a horse riding camp last year and really enjoyed it. Even though it's a "Christian" type activity, all they really talked about was their experiences with the horses. I don't mind if they go. I think my 13-year old is skeptical enough to not buy all the Christian brainwashing they lay on the kids, as well as my 11-year old. In fact, my 11-year old is quite the little whiz kid, pulling straight As. He's also sarcastic as hell. He cuts my oldest son into ribbons with his wit.

Today was the last day of my wife's day job. She'll now be able to stay at home in the mornings with our 3-year old daughter. We are all thankful for that. She hated the job, but is glad she did it because otherwise she'd probably always think she missed something. Now she knows that the "working mother" isn't what it's made out to be. She is still going to work part-time at Wal-Mart, but back off on the ridiculous hours.

We still don't know where we're going to settle for church. Of course, I would just as soon not go at all, but I will go since it means so much to my wife. Besides, she knows I don't believe any of it anyway, so won't expect any "sudden revelations" from me. That's kind of nice. She got an e-mail from a woman at the church who was supposedly a "good friend" but never bothered to contact my wife through any of this shit. The woman wondered "what she had done that was so bad," so my wife replied to her. What bothered me about it was that she put the one good thing that came out of all this was her faith in god was strengthened. I guess this is another one of those Christian mysteries. Hardships don't make me feel closer to god; they make me appreciate when I'm NOT in a hardship. Kind of like, "Why are you hitting yourself in the head with a hammer?" "Because it feels so good when I stop!"

I don't understand the whole "suffering for god" deal, probably never will. At least now I don't have to wonder about it for myself. Suffering exists simply because the universe doesn't give two shits about my welfare. If I'm dumb enough or unlucky enough to get myself killed, there is no "plan" from sky daddy. That's life. Deal with it.

Vicar

seebs

I haven't checked on this thread for a while, and I'm very glad to hear that things are going relatively well. Hope they keep improving!

HelenM

Hi Darren

I'm glad to hear things are going well and you've reached the time where your wife's given up the day job and long hours.

I think both of you have done very well to get back to being able to handle those things over which you strongly disagree with each other. It's hard to do that without outside help but it seems that that's what you've done since you haven't mentioned anyone who has helped you both in a way that doesn't take sides, helping one spouse while antagonizing/demonizing the other.

It sounds like your wife has found a theistic interpretation of circumstances which has enabled her to stop blaming you and to stop feeling her life is over because of your atheism. I know you'd rather she give up theism altogether but - at least her current way of looking at her circumstances has enabled her to reach a level of acceptance she needed to reach to move beyond blame and being desperately unhappy about what is out of her control anyway.

take care
Helen

Vicar Philip

'Twould appear my oasis of tranquility was merely an illusion.

Let me explain: last night the methodist church which we left six months ago held a benefit dinner for kids to go to summer camp. My wife volunteered to make the soup, and I helped. While I was at the church helping to prepare the food, I started a conversation with a fellow whom I've known quite a while. I simply asked him if HIS beliefs had changed over the years. He indicated they had, so I told him a little about my beliefs, and we found that we agreed on several points. He then mentioned that he and the pastor had a small men's group that met weekly, and they talk about religion and other related subjects. The pastor, such as he is, apparently shares similar beliefs (semi-non-theistic). So, dumb Darren has the brilliant idea that, hey, maybe I could go to these meetings and actually get something out of this church for a change! What a revelation! My wife heard me talking to this individual about going to the meetings, and sarcastically commented that what I really needed was bible study. That was all that was said about it last night.

Well, today, the church was having a "church clean-up" which we planned to attend. We missed church because she had just come off a two-day stretch with very little sleep, and needed it. Fine. So we take a shower, and as we're drying off, brushing our teeth, etc., out of the blue comes this: "I think it's a bad idea for you to go to those meetings." So now I'm defending myself, and she's accusing me of seeking out others in the church who think similarly to me to "back me up." What a crock of shit. She stated that my real intention was to start a revolution in the church. Oh yeah, that's my goal. I told her, "You wanted me to go to the church, so I go. But now you say I have to do exactly what you think while I'm in the church?" Utter bullshit. Now who's wanting to have their cake and eat it too?

I knew where the conversation was headed next. Bingo. I just think she is stupid, I was informed. Because I believe in science, and don't just simply take life in god's terms, somehow that means I think she is stupid. I calmly told her that was not the case, I have never thought she was stupid. Yes you have! she yells. So we all pile in the van to go to the church. We get a half mile down the road, and she starts in again. "So, is this how you're going to be? All calm, cool, and collected? Well, why not? It worked with the pastor, didn't it? Acting all timid?"

I 'd had enough. I stopped the van, got out, and began walking towards our house. I heard her yell behind me, "So you're just going to leave your kids in the van running until all the gas is gone?" Soon enough she drove off. So I got in my car and drove to the radio stations that I take care of on the side. Here I sit typing my pathetic little story.

My frame of mind right now is to leave. Just when I thought we were making strides in improving this situation, it all goes down the shitter. She apparently expects me to go back to the church and sit there with my mouth shut like a good little boy. Even when I find a few other people with whom I could possibly have a meaningful conversation, THAT isn't good enough. I either do exactly what she says or I'm wrong. Sorry, Darren don't play dat anymore.

I figure she'll do one of two things: call me up and want me to come home so we can talk, or call me up and tell me to pick up my belongings from the front lawn. If the latter, I'll probably need a fire extinguisher, broom, and dustpan to get it all. Is this world of shit ever going to end?

beth

I'm sorry to hear this. I wish religion would not get in the way of the love people had for each other when they married in the first place. Just know that I'm nearly in the same boat as you.

Vicar Philip

Sucks, doesn't it bg? She's now called my cell phone about 6 or 7 times. The first message she left, she told me "You'd better call me back!" as if I'm a child and she can bully me. In the second voice mail she just left, she told me that if I didn't call back in just a little while, she was going to pack up the kids and leave. I don't know where the hell she thinks she's going to go. It just kills me how she thinks threats are the way to come about a resolution. I've had it. I'm sick and tired of the mind games. If she was capable of leaving me a message which even remotely sounded like she wanted to reconcile, I'd call her back in a heartbeat. Threats and ultimatums aren't gonna cut it.

GODDAMN this shit sucks.

Gonzo

I've been following the thread, I was hopeful that things had made a turn for the better lately. I don't know what to tell you, I just wanted to send some support your way. I hope you don't end up using the dustpan to gather your stuff!

Gonzo

Non-praying Mantis

Darren,

I hope you made contact with that lawyer, like we told you to do a while back. It seems you might need one.

I really hope this really works out for you, but it is best to be prepared.

NPM

Ted Hoffman

Oh Darren,
I am so sorry. You see the way she is making threats and intending to use them to get you to do what she wants?
Its like she is a little girl and you are an adult. I am faced by the same situation me and my fiancee.
I cant advice really, but I hope things turn out for the best for you.
One thing I learnt recently is that things DO get better.

Godless Dave

I would like to say I'm surprised by this turn of events but I always suspected this would happen once your wife's mood swung the other way. It just goes to show that her self-esteem is what she's really unhappy about, not your church attendance and religious beliefs. Darren please pick up the yellow pages and start looking up divorce lawyers and marriage counselors. Which service you end up needing is ultimately up to your wife, but you need to be prepared for what she decides.