Amos

Thanks for that Jim, nothing really bothers me and so it does not help to get crude either. I am kind of a Stoic.

My normal way to read poetry or the bible is most unlike normal. That is just the way it is. I try to be clear and avoid jump-shifts as much as possible. Too often I import different material to reinforce my argument and this is where the problem begins. It is not easy.

IvanK

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. dnftt

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: IvanK ]</p>

IvanK

A Catholic (such as my dear wife) would point out that Catholics don't actually pray to saints, worship them or ascribe special powers to them directly; they pray to ask the saints to intercede for them with God. Of course the concept of saints and their role has made Catholicism much easier to swallow for many former polytheists (q.v. Santeria).

Again, a Catholic would say Catholics don't worship the Pope. As the head of The Church and the successor of Peter they revere him; Catholic priests, including bishops and such, obey him (theoretically at least); and (according to relatively recent doctrine) when he speaks ex cathedra he's infallible and his pronouncements are binding on Catholics (or those who wish to stay in God's good graces anyway).

I've heard Protestants say they were glad there were no priests or Popes standing between them and their God, but that's not quite accurate either. While a priest (or his properly appointed designate) is neccessary for certain functions and rites I think most Catholics would say his role is to assist the parishioner rather than to act as a God-substitute.

KweschunThEAnserz

Here's some of the differences that I know of:
Catholics put a major emphasis on the virgin Mary almost as if she was godly. It seems she was just important as Jesus but most Christians will say that she was just who God chose to carry Jesus, nothing more than that. Catholics have confession where they talk to a preacher about their sins. Christians believe that only through Jesus can sin be forgiven. Catholics put somewhat of an emphasis on works, tallying up sins and the repetitive chants you must perform based on the degree of sin. Of course theres purgutory which Christians will say is a mis-interpretation of a single verse from the Bible. Christians feel that Catholics do not experience God as a personal being, but merely repeat the same prayer and perform the same gestures again and again out of obligation or some way to score brownie points with God. I've never run into any Christians who hate catholics and I myself don't believe that they're all condemned.
I haven't studied that religion that much yet so theres my wee contribution to the question.

HelenM

You could always look and see what the Bible would tell you to do - you're a Christian, aren't you?

IvanK

That's a large topic but I'll just say here that my experience has been that the prayers at a Catholic Mass are directed to God in Jesus's name and not to Mary just as they would be in a Protestant church. Catholics do have a lot of traditions about Mary that Protestants don't neccessarily share (that she was a virgin all her life, that she was assumed into Heaven and such) and their reverence for Mary is indeed generally greater than most Protestants'.

Catholics, being Christians, believe the same. The confession Catholics make to a priest can for Protestants be made internally. But both agree I think that confession of sin is neccessary for forgiveness. In Catholicism priests don't forgive sins, only God, through Jesus, does. The priest assists the parishioner during the sacrament of reconciliation, during which he may inform the parishioner that the sins he or she has confessed have been forgiven.

There was quite a long piece put together by an official ecumenical group on salvation through grace and salvation through works that I recommend to anyone with a burning interest in the question. As for myself, it made about as much sense as any one of Amos's posts.

I'd have to say from my experience of Catholics that that's a misunderstanding, and further that referring to "Christians" and "Catholics" in the same sentence as if they were two different denominations perpetuates the misunderstandings.

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: IvanK ]

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: IvanK ]</p>

Amos

Well it's obvious where you got your information from.

Amos

Hi Helen, sorry, that would be given the wrong advise becasue he would end up where he doesn't want to be.

KweschunThEAnserz

quoted by Amos:
True. But much of what I know is just through observance and relationships I have with people who are Catholic. They are more worried about missing Mass than what they're going to learn from it. Prayer time just consists of repeating the same thing over and over and when asked what the prayer really means, don't really know.
Thats why I said that their reason for religion seems to be more out of obligation, rather than love for God.

Amos

[
Tradition is important for Catholics and the Latin Mass reinforced that because nobody knew what was said (btw, I prefer Latin over the vernacular because of that). "The beads" are part or are found in every major mythology, once again, they point towards contemplation. At the same time, some/many people go to church twice a year but will always know that the church is there if needed. This is OK too and nobody will ever get harassed or excommunicated because of it.

Opposite this, when protestants pray they seem to always want to tell God what to do (as if he doesn't know what he is doing) while boasting about their own humility (that seems to be the foxy appraoch to the throne). You should hear them sometimes how they get carried away and just go bonkers trying to tell God what he should be doing.! <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />