tdekeyser

We have some friends that are very Xian. They are the only ones left out of my wife's Xian friends to stick around since she turned agnostic 2 years ago.

Margo (the friend) has traveled back home to another state and found a man to marry. She has kept us informed over the last 6 months on the relationship and then decided to marry him. It was a tough decision we found out later.....They now live here in Texas about 4 miles from us.

Margo cannot see how in the world her friend Anna (my live in girlfriend, that makes her my wife I guess) can be so happy without God. She is even more confused about us living in "SIN" and having sex and all and not experiancing some punishment or 'testing' from God.

First, margo got married to this new guy and now she hates him. She is angry ALL the time about this marriage she is in. The guy is a nice guy, but may lack some personality traits most girls love. No backbone, little responsibility, a bit messy, hard to get to go to work. He plays video games all day and does whatever she tells him to do. We seceretly don't think he is very religious, but can never find out....

This new husband threatned to kill himself a few days ago because if all the hurtful things Margo says to him. She says things like, "Your never going to lose weight if you eat like that" or "why cant you have better style like everyone else."

Margo really, really, believes that a man should change for the wife. I am too shocked by her attitude to confront her about it. I may just say things like, well Margo, I see it as YOU are the problem, blah, blah, blah....

Anyways, Margo lives in a world of fights, arguments, disgust and shame of her husband. She will not get a divorce because of some bible thing..(can anyone explain this one to me?) She wanted our advice and we told her that both of them need to go see a professional counselor. They agreed, but we found out that they will ONLY see a Xian counselor.

Is there something I am missing here? It is CLEAR that Anna is happy in a non-religious relationship and Margo is not happy in hers. It is difficult to see why she continues to think Anna and I have a "false peace" and we are only fooling ourselves without GOD.

Ojuice5001

Well, here's my interpretation:

I think Yahweh was trying to select a good husband for Margo, but there are a million things to do and he was too busy. Thus, like any giant organization often does, he made a mistake and foisted on her this guy she isn't happy with. He caused her to fall in love, not realizing that he (Yahweh) had made a bad choice.

An atheist's relationships can also be "a match made in heaven." But there are fewer atheists, and a smaller percentage of atheist marriages are made by the gods. Thus, the gods who choose atheists' marriages are less overworked, and came through. Either that, or your marriage wasn't chosen by the gods at all, and you were just lucky.

So you see, this doesn't prove Yahweh and the other gods don't exist. It just means that Yahweh is overworked sometimes.

Godless Dave

That's faith, man. She believes in something even though the evidence right in front of her eyes contradicts it. And they consider faith a positive characteristic.

brighid

I have plenty of non-religious or barely religious friends that have the same type of dysfunctional relationship issues. I have asked the same questions you have, and have often times felt like banging my head up against the wall in frustration. No matter what you say, or even the example you provide with your life and love is going to positively influence someone to change who either does not want to, or isn't ready to change (for whatever personal reasons might be influencing this situation.)

In my own life I have simply given up even attempting to say, or do anything for those people. It's a total waste of my time and effort. After 5-10 years of listening to the same old shit it just gets to be too much!

It seems that despite the things she believes about Christianity she has many other issues unrelated to her faith that contribute to her sorry state of being. Believe me, one need not be religious to be this kind of self-loathing basket case. No doubt her faith is part of the problem, but IMO it probably doesn't even skim the surface of her life and relationship dysfunctions.

Your advice to seek professional help was good imo, but as the old saying goes, "You can only lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink."

Hopefully, someday the reality of your relationship, happiness and love will sink in for this friend. It's not any easy thing to do - relinquish one's faith. It takes time and many of us here at ii ... well it took us years and some even decades of struggling to finally let go of our deeply ingrained faith.

Brighid

tdekeyser

What is the Xian rules for divorce? I was told something about a covenet (sp?) or something....

She can never get divorced she says because of this.....


Because of what? Is there some sin or something I have not heard of yet?

brighid

It depends on the denomination. Christians obviously get divorced, but some denominations are more strict and I guess it would really depend on what brand of fundy (what church she goes to) if they say divorce is permissible.

Check out http://www.blueletterbible.com and type in adultery. It will give you all the Biblical references about adultery and I believe that correlates best with divorce related scripture.

Brighid

PalestineChic19

well OF COURSE we atheists are heppier and better off in life than christians! we don't have to go to a church and give money to a "god" every sunday at 7 am!

-Samirah

Sabine Grant

Salaam Samirah... There are problems on both sides and among all kinds of people. I do not think one group is more advantaged than the other. I think it has to do with the level of maturity of each individual and how they choose to apply their own philosophy whether it is a secular one or religious one. There is also the background of each person and whether or not they were nurtured as children into growing as functional individuals who do not have a need to control others' behavior.

Marital problems start with the notion of one party wanting the change the other. Which tedekeyser already analyzed in his post. People who focus on changing others rather than themselves are often unsatisfied. They become untolerant and demanding. They seem to not acquire the quality of being content.

Sabine Grant

You gave your friend the best advice you could give by encouraging counseling. It seems that the wife is ripe for personal counseling as an individual who may have issues with just about any husband ! ( the fact she focuses so much on controlling the poor fellow).( the fact also she wants to control how you and your girl friend choose to live your life).
There may be deeper roots to her behavior than it appears. Maybe your girl friend can encourage her to see a counselor alone at first to work on her own dysfunctionment. Chances are that even with a divorce she will exhibit the same behavior with the next husband.
Both stay close to her... be patient, guide her gently but firmly, you can help.
On the topic of divorce, the best example I found in my life of rational and edifying marital counseling was given by military chaplains. They deal with hard core family problems caused my military life. They know better than to " preach grimstone" to a couple whose differences are irreconcialible. They focus on what is in the best interest of the couple as separate individuals. They do try to work out solutions to allow the marriage to heal and get a fresh start. But never do they condemn and tell a couple " you are going to burn in hell if you divorce". That horrendous notion can be found in legalistic denominations which do not promote Grace.
If all christians were to be banned from the presence of the God we believe in because of the choice to divorce, churches may be quite empty.
I am a christian and previously divorced. It was my choice. I reconciled my faith with my choice by aknowledging to God that I simply could not work it out anylonger. I do believe as a christian that I was forgiven. It has not affected my faith. The only grief I went thru is how so many of my "devoted" christian friends suddenly disappeared from my social circle.
The important thing you may want to explain to this wife is how Grace is to prevail. Indeed the Bible does not support divorce. But once a person has accepted that his sins or her sins are redeemed thru Christ, that act of faith also means to the believer that choices we make that defy God's written Laws need to be aknowledged to God as a sin and forgiveness needs to be asked directly to God. There is also the knowledge that God will not condemn an individual who asks for that forgiveness nor will He strike her with a ligthening bolt! She will grow to learn to make necessary changes in herself so the next time around " she finds a man to marry" she " will sin no more".
I am happily remarried.... if you wish bring her to this forum and I will share my testimony with her on private PM.
Grace has to prevail if she really believes that Christ died for her sins.

tdekeyser

Thanks Sabine Grant,

I really appreciate your concern for our friend.

I wish Margo would come to this forum and read some of the topics here. Maybe it would make her feel better to know that divorce is "ok" and that she should not feel shame over it.

She used to be a very happy soul, now she is angry and sad. She often complains that she was "lied to". Marriage was supposed to be 'glorious' and 'wonderful'. She tried to blame the media, and then blamed the secular people and on and on. She is searching for answers why her 'fantasy dream marriage' did not come true....