Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ex-idaho · 02-11-2002, 01:46 PM

<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/02/11/china_christian/index.html" target="_blank">China persecutes Christians</a>

I am torn. I think it is horrible that the Chinese government would restrict the rights of it's people to practice a particular religious philosphy. But at the same time I completely understand the desire of the government to not allow the corruption of ancient cultural norms.

I think missionaries are the lowest form of scum. But I do feel that the people deserve the opportunity to decide what to believe.

Can we have it both ways?

Vorkosigan · 02-11-2002, 01:57 PM

It's not about "ancient cultural norms," It's about competing authoritarian systems. The Communists don't like competition from other authority systems.

Michael

Waning Moon Conrad · 02-12-2002, 11:53 AM

ex-idaho · 02-12-2002, 12:22 PM

So which is it? Do we believe that religious freedom is worth fighting for or that Christian missionaries should not be allowed to pursue Chinese citizens?

MadKally · 02-12-2002, 12:23 PM

It made me think of what the CDC does to prevent the spread of foreign viruses here in the US..

Orpheous99 · 02-12-2002, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by idaho:
<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/02/11/china_christian/index.html" target="_blank">China persecutes Christians</a>

I am torn. I think it is horrible that the Chinese government would restrict the rights of it's people to practice a particular religious philosphy. But at the same time I completely understand the desire of the government to not allow the corruption of ancient cultural norms.

I think missionaries are the lowest form of scum. But I do feel that the people deserve the opportunity to decide what to believe.

Can we have it both ways?

That's the thing with Americans. They mistakenly believe that the rest of the planet shares their beliefs about right and wrong.

They never had any such rights nor freedoms to begin with. So, how could their government restrict them? It is not just Christians being treated like this so Christians can't really claim persecution in this regard, it is ALL differing religious beliefs.

nerv111 · 02-12-2002, 02:07 PM

First of all, I fully believe in religious freedom, but that freedom should not permit evangelizing. I have no problem with China not allowing missionaries into the country, nor do I have a problem with them cracking down on unregistered cults. Religion has caused enough trouble in the western world; all the Chinese government is trying to do is attempt to control it (for it threatens their own power). Their methods I do question, and believe are extreme in some cases.

On a side note, the term �re-education� was used in the article sighing that some 4,000 thousand people were sentenced to �re-education�. What exactly is meant by that (i.e. what methods are used)?

02-12-2002, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by idaho:

I think missionaries are the lowest form of scum. But I do feel that the people deserve the opportunity to decide what to believe.

Can we have it both ways?

Can't have it both ways because hell is eternal damnation and the Chinese don't want to go to hell.

People should not have the right to chose what they believe because not all religions work towards the betterment of mankind. People should have the right to believe or not to believe which is not the same is the right to what they believe.

Americans do have the right to chose what they believe but this is only because they have freedom of religion as part of the Constitution (which is absurd from my point of view).

alek0 · 02-12-2002, 10:46 PM

I live in China (well, Hong Kong). There are many things I don't approve of in mainland, and treatment of various missionaries is somewhere at the bottom of my list.

ex-idaho · 02-12-2002, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alek0:
I live in China (well, Hong Kong). There are many things I don't approve of in mainland, and treatment of various missionaries is somewhere at the bottom of my list.

Welcome to the board. It is always nice to have people from elsewhere in the world participating.

Personally I think missionaries get what they deserve. They know the rules before they ever get there. The question is should we be voicing support for the people that want to practice Xianity or for the government to restrict the personal freedoms of it's citizens?

02-11-2002, 01:46 PM	#1
ex-idaho Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Spudtopia, ID Posts: 5,315	Chinese persecution of Xians <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/02/11/china_christian/index.html" target="_blank">China persecutes Christians</a> I am torn. I think it is horrible that the Chinese government would restrict the rights of it's people to practice a particular religious philosphy. But at the same time I completely understand the desire of the government to not allow the corruption of ancient cultural norms. I think missionaries are the lowest form of scum. But I do feel that the people deserve the opportunity to decide what to believe. Can we have it both ways?

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02-11-2002, 01:57 PM	#2
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	It's not about "ancient cultural norms," It's about competing authoritarian systems. The Communists don't like competition from other authority systems. Michael

02-12-2002, 11:53 AM	#3
Waning Moon Conrad Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Victoria. Australia Posts: 1,417	<img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

02-12-2002, 12:22 PM	#4
ex-idaho Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Spudtopia, ID Posts: 5,315	So which is it? Do we believe that religious freedom is worth fighting for or that Christian missionaries should not be allowed to pursue Chinese citizens?

02-12-2002, 12:23 PM	#5
MadKally Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 433	It made me think of what the CDC does to prevent the spread of foreign viruses here in the US..

02-12-2002, 02:07 PM	#7
nerv111 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 421	First of all, I fully believe in religious freedom, but that freedom should not permit evangelizing. I have no problem with China not allowing missionaries into the country, nor do I have a problem with them cracking down on unregistered cults. Religion has caused enough trouble in the western world; all the Chinese government is trying to do is attempt to control it (for it threatens their own power). Their methods I do question, and believe are extreme in some cases. On a side note, the term �re-education� was used in the article sighing that some 4,000 thousand people were sentenced to �re-education�. What exactly is meant by that (i.e. what methods are used)?

02-12-2002, 10:46 PM	#9
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	I live in China (well, Hong Kong). There are many things I don't approve of in mainland, and treatment of various missionaries is somewhere at the bottom of my list.

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