Darth Dane

But, DD, what is important right NOW is what we decide is important.

Yes, we cannot debate how life will be tomorrow only what life is now. As I see it earth is designed well enough. Humans decide to create weapons, money, polltuing factories, but WE DON'T HAVE TO! But some do, because they are only self-centered. If you decide right now, that you will put every effort into making teh NOW a beautiful place to be in, then you must give up a lot of personal pleasures, because a lot of people are self-indulgent, they don't get off their ass and do work, because people are lazy, they consider it to hard work to continue to turn the other cheek, but if we want a better NOW, then isn't that what we need to do?
The change can only effectively come from within.



The OP is suggesting that the process of life is not in keeping with a "beneficial" design other than to its self. The world could not be as it is now if a beneficial god had created it because the pieces just dont fit.

As I see it humans made the balance uneven, money was priced over harmony with nature, teh balance was/is upset.


Only a sadistic bored god would create such an enviroment. If god can only be good, then there cannot be a god.

True, yin/yang creates teh Tao or Good AND Evil creates God

Kinda touches on the old chestnut of "why would god let X happen if he loves you etc", but what I am saying is "If god is good then why did he design such an awkward dangerous painfull unpleasant world in the first place?".

Is it important if God is or is not? Will your actions be any different in the NOW?
ANd note, human eyes as you posses, will look upon creation and through your experiences your eyes will be colored as to what is good and bad. Besides life is comprised of good and bad, we cannot have it without I think.

The answer is that a good god would not do such a thing, so either a bad god made it all, or no god made it all. I go with the latter.

God is BOTH good and bad, other wise the whole lucifer thing is out the window, since lucifer is of God, or God's creation. If God created lucifer an angel, only to do good, how could he rebel?







DD - Love Spliff

GrandDesigner

It's quite possible that God, whatever it is, experienced death. Maybe in the sense that he indeed got bored and tried to die. But, also, maybe at some point before then, He had said to Himself ""I'll never ever die, for I love living". But, as I suggested, he got to a point where He wanted death and to be at peace, so to speak.So, He willed it. But at some point He woke up. Being God, He'd have the ability to kill Himself and still be reborn. Now, it's highly possible that upon that reawakening, He clinged to life. Found a new zest and appreciation. Realized the experience was extremely liberating, even for Him. Maybe it was such a good experience, so liberating, that He let us experience it as well.

Now, that was only a thought on a possibility, but it seems to me that a lot of atheists dont believe there is anything after death. I almost envy those people. For if there is something after death, they'll be like kids in a candy store. Not because they werent right with what they thought throughout physical life, because from all the proof they had, it was just. But to realize they aren't bound by what their eyes can see, anymore, would be incredibly liberating. And sure, maybe some dont need to die to take that step, but even those who say they believe in this or that sometimes have their reservations about what truly happens after death. So when that time comes, everyone, no matter what they said they believe...what they truly believe..what they dont believe, would have quite an awakening. And also, sure, an angel could read it in a book or dictionairy as to what 'dying and reawakening' is like. But, I imagine God would want us to experience it like He did. They say He created us in His image, right? Maybe we experience things as He did, as well. Love is Good.

Grand Ol Designer

Darth Dane

But, I imagine God would want us to experience it like He did. They say He created us in His image, right? Maybe we experience things as He did, as well. Love is Good.

Yes, we are indeed in teh image of God, or so teh bible says.

Beautiful GD




DD - Love Spliff

Duck!

Humans didn't make floods, earthquakes, mental illness, genetic and congenital illnesses, AIDS, malaria, etc. They're part of the everyday misery that happens on this planet.


Duck!

Duck!

The Bible says a lot of things. The Bible says that the world was created in six days. The Bible says that the first man was made from dirt by God. The Bible says that a huge flood wiped out nearly all life on the planet. The Bible says that God made the sun stop. The Bible says that people used to live to be hundreds of years old. The Bible says that a talking snake convinced a woman made from the rib of a man eat an apple which led to all sorts of trouble with God. All of which nonsense leads to me ignoring such arguments as "Well, the Bible says it....."


Duck!

Darth Dane

Humans didn't make floods, earthquakes, mental illness, genetic and congenital illnesses, AIDS, malaria, etc. They're part of the everyday misery that happens on this planet.

Yes, but since we cannot know if there is a synergy betwen human behaviour and the state of nature, how can we say if it is God, or what it is? Should we behave like assholes, just because natural disasters happen?

The Bible says a lot of things. The Bible says that the world was created in six days.

Can you prove it wasn't? Could a God have created something now, with the possibility to make humans see bakc in time over millions of years?

The Bible says that the first man was made from dirt by God.

We come from ameoba, that came to be through teh dirt somehow..perhaps?

The Bible says that a huge flood wiped out nearly all life on the planet.

Meteor?

The Bible says that God made the sun stop.

Solar eclipse?

The Bible says that people used to live to be hundreds of years old.

Some scientist afaik have discovered that teh brain can survive for 1000 years, if the enviroment are pure.

The Bible says that a talking snake convinced a woman made from the rib of a man eat an apple which led to all sorts of trouble with God. All of which nonsense leads to me ignoring such arguments as "Well, the Bible says it....."

I never said that teh bible is teh be all of this, far from it, I agree the bible is full of hogwash, but I won't let some rotten apples spoil the rest






DD - Love Spliff

darkroomjames

The blatant fairy-tale status of the Bible has become more common knowledge than most Christians would wish, but of course we are left with a book of fiction and a faith without a reliably objective universe, contradicted by science and industry, and overruled in moral supremacy by corporate values that declare every person either humanly wealthy or work-qualified...

Personally, whether churches count angels on the heads of pins or take the pains to update their theology, I want the churches to continue to exist to care for the public and remind us of what is or could be moral and just.

Jackalope

Find a reference for that one or retract it. Neurons in some circumstances can regrow, but only very, very slowly. And the dead neurons (and their network of connections) are gone. For the most part, neurons that die of old age or trauma do not get replaced. The nerve cells around them simply grow more connections to take up the slack. However, there's a price to this, and the overworked neurons die much quicker than they would otherwise. This is why post-polio syndrome occurs.
Cell death has very little to do with how "pure" the environment is. The cells simply wear out over time. Environmental stressors can make cell death happen sooner, but no way will neurons live for 1000 years.

Wyz_sub10

We probably shouldn't behave like asshole for dozens of reasons, but trying to avoide earthquakes is a peculiar one. Why assume this synerygy?

Maybe there's a synergy between natural disasters and the colour of shirt you wear in the morning? Maybe earthquakes are caused by not having enough sex?

Well, if you think like SOMMS (and maybe Kent Hovind), you can't prove anything. Any evidence is only evidence of delusion or conspiracy.

However, if you are seeking to prove things to the degree that the an answer becomes the most likely answer to the extent that believing otherwise would be far less reasonable, then yes. You absolutely can prove the earth was not created in six days.

As for your second comment - god could have created you just now, and implanted all your memories from before. So discount everything anyone has ever told you, because it didn't really happen. Nor have you ever accomplished anything.

In fact, you never passed first grade. You just think you did, and god gave you the ability to believe you had.

Care to disagree? Explain to SOMMS how you can prove it to him.

No.

1) is not a flood
2) has left vast amounts of evidence
3) can be plausible reconstructed
4) did not wipe out all life on the planet (obviously)


1) does not make the sun stop
2) cannot possibly be confused for making the sun stop
3) demonstrates that the bible erred, if this is the case

Really? I'de be interested in that article.

What about the heart? The skin? Bones?

Well, we agree on something, at least.

But if the bible cannot be trusted, where is your source for anything true? (apparently not science)

Darth Dane

We probably shouldn't behave like asshole for dozens of reasons, but trying to avoide earthquakes is a peculiar one. Why assume this synerygy?

And coversely, why assume there isn't one? Just because we can't see it? We can't see the signals from a satelitte, but we believe they are there because we can see television now, 500 years ago teh notion of a televison would be absurd, because back then they coudln't see the electricity.

Maybe there's a synergy between natural disasters and the colour of shirt you wear in the morning? Maybe earthquakes are caused by not having enough sex?

Yes, sounds like chaos theory, doesn't it?

Well, if you think like SOMMS (and maybe Kent Hovind), you can't prove anything.

What is "SOMMS"? We can't prove some things.

Any evidence is only evidence of delusion or conspiracy.

That seems farfetched

However, if you are seeking to prove things to the degree that the an answer becomes the most likely answer to the extent that believing otherwise would be far less reasonable, then yes. You absolutely can prove the earth was not created in six days.

How so? Where you present when earth was created? Or teh universe?

As for your second comment - god could have created you just now, and implanted all your memories from before. So discount everything anyone has ever told you, because it didn't really happen. Nor have you ever accomplished anything.

True in a sense.

In fact, you never passed first grade. You just think you did, and god gave you the ability to believe you had.

Care to disagree?

No, we will only reach a dead end, given teh inherent logic of his argument.



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We come from ameoba, that came to be through teh dirt somehow..perhaps?
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No.

Do you absolutely know?


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Meteor?
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1) is not a flood
2) has left vast amounts of evidence
3) can be plausible reconstructed
4) did not wipe out all life on the planet (obviously)

1) true, but a meteor could have caused teh flood.
2) Not sure what you mean, but the grand canyon could be teh evidence.
3) Yes and?
4) no, but the animals in the arch survived no?



quote:
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Solar eclipse?
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1) does not make the sun stop
2) cannot possibly be confused for making the sun stop
3) demonstrates that the bible erred, if this is the case

1) Could appear to have stopped to peasants and less knowledgeable people than we are now!
2) The sun "stops" for a brief moment, it is entirely dark! I myself have witnessed it, and it could be perceived as a stoopage.
3) It could have been a metaphorical way the bible is written in.



Well, we agree on something, at least.

I knew there was something

But if the bible cannot be trusted, where is your source for anything true? (apparently not science)

How can anything be trusted?
Science and religion are only tools in explaining reality.
Consider this: "A zen master wakes up and says; I just dreamt I was a butterfly, now I wonder if I am me that dreamt he was a butterfly, or if I am a butterfly that is dreaming he is me!"

If we in no way can prove that teh entire universe is not someones dream, like God or a God, from where do we know anything? Where does our knowledge come from? Where does our thoughts come from?

When you dream, would it be possible that other humans have a freewill there? That is NOT governed by you? How will youh prove to me that you are correct and I am wrong?





DD - Love Spliff