VonEvilstein

Logic would suggest they get a license to carry out 30 years of imprisonment worth of crime, and get away with time already served...

Ratio would then proceed to take logic outside, and give it a long, hard talking to.

VonEvilstein

The problem with the first thing you bring up, is that the lines will be moved. If you say "with evidence of this kind, we can exectue", then "this kind" (or perhaps "this weight" would be better put) will be redifined, in time, by those with an Agenda. The redefinition is not likley to impose more limits on executions - it's far more likely to relax the standards that must be applied.

On your last point - not curious at all. We all know just how easily the sheeple's opinions can be told to them... When education becomes all about teaching young people how to use their brains properly, maybe we can grow out of this...

Stephen T-B

When McVeigh was about to be executed (I think it was he,) relatives of his victims were interviewed. Some said his killing couldn’t be too soon, and it was clear they were looking for “closure.’ But I wondered if his death would, in fact, bring it. I don’t suppose they’ve ever been interviewed again, but I’d be very interested to know how they now felt.
His execution, I thought, might help them temporarily deal with their pain, but I supposed it would still be there when he wasn’t. Furthermore, he had been a focus of their loathing - and now he was gone.
I’ve been more impressed by the “closure” which seems to be possible where there’s forgiveness.
I know that some people think there’s something very sick about “forgiving” a murderer, and especially a sadistic and monstrous one who horribly killed a loved one, and I dare say it is not something of which many people are capable. (I doubt that I am.)
A BBC Radio 4 programme, which I mostly missed, did look at this very issue, and from what I heard of it, I was under the impression that counselling had helped people towards forgiveness, and that forgiveness had brought them a sense of ease. It was also, I have to say, an area where religious conviction seemed to be playing a positive role.
Odd that the Christian Right in the US seems to be among the loudest shouting for blood.

Jamie_L

Interesting side note:

Relating to the D.C. sniper shootings: I was fascinated and disturbed by the fact that after the suspects were apprehended, the primary focus of prosecutors was to determine "Where will it be most easy to kill these men?" That is, the primary focus of their preliminary legwork was to determine what juridiction to try them in to achieve the best chance of executing both men.

I understand this motive, but it seems a bit of cart-before-the-horse. It's also disturbing to see government officials focusing FIRST on how best to achieve execution. It seems like this should not be the job of the government. It this case, perhaps the sentiment is justified, but it seems like it exposes a weakness in the whole system: giving the government the ability to operate in this manner. Prior to trial, the government is focusing on killing people it has already decided are guilty and deserving of execution. While in this case that may be true, it might not be true in the next case, yet the foundation is there to do the exact same thing.

I'm not explaining myself clearly, but I just found this whole rush for execution before trial disturbing. And I live near D.C. and lived with the terror, so I understand the loating for these guys. But this attitude from government officials is a bit frightening.

Jamie

Claudia

copernicus has presented my opinion better than I would do. I am against death penalty even for the worst criminal, culprit without any possible doubt.

Puck

I was glad to hear of the Illinois Governor stopping executions. At least for the time being, considering our past mistakes, and make no mistake, we have made them.

I think we need to re-vamp the requirments for a sentence of death.

However, if we can tighten up those requirments, I would be in favor of keeping the death sentence. Some folks just don't deserve to be on the face of the earth. How could one sleep at night knowing that their childs murderer is sleeping somewhere and will awake to breakfast soon? There are circumstances that require removal of a human being from existence.

The problem is we are too lax in our requirments for consideration of execution. But when there is no doubt, and the crime is horrible, then just get rid of them.

Jamie_L

Perhaps. But is that an important and necessary function of government? Some folks don't deserve to have kids. Should we set up a government bureacracy to determine who gets to have kids? And if we did, would you trust it?

Yes, that sucks. However, is it sufficient justification to put innocent lives at risk? Is it sufficient justification to occasionally kill someone who doesn't deserve it? Killing that murderer still leaves the child's family to try to sleep at night knowing their child died a horrible death. That's not fair. But life isn't fair. It's only slightly less fair that they should also have to cope with the knowledge that the killer lives in incarceration. Yet it is much more fair to allow innocent people to keep their lives than to execute them for crimes they didn't commit.

When is there ever no doubt? How do we make sure that standard of "no doubt" is enforced? And why? The risk is great but the gain is small.

Jamie

Harumi

Simple, knowing that they will be waking up to a breakfast of crap and that they will spend the rest of their lives in a torturous existence. Hell on earth.

You would think that that would be a lot more satisfying than just dying.

[Edited to add a smilie, and let Puck know that I was just being insolent]

Harumi

Another problem I have with the death penalty is the age in which it is applied.

Now teenagers can be put on death row. That's my age. That's terrifying.

If the death penalty is still going to be in place, at least they can make sure that the people dying are already old and decrepit and going to die anyways.

Dying in your teens, even if you did something awful, is repugnant and disgusting. I can't believe that the government is even encouraging such a thing.

Revenge, from my experience, has never been very satisfying. Forgiveness is. I know, that despite all the times I've been abused by my father, that I would never want him to suffer. Forgiveness is a lot better feeling than revenge. Instead of an abrupt emptiness, there's a calm, slow, draining away of hate.

The end of hate is always a good thing, right?

Puck

Holy crap, Harumi, I can't bellieve you just said that.

I've never seen the death penalty as revenge. It's not a matter of revenge, but, a matter of removing vermin from the face of the earth and offering the comfort to families that the murderer isn't still breathing while their loved one will never breath again.

As for making life in prison Hell On Earth, it's still life, and we certianly can't become monsters ourselves in carrying out the act of making it hell. The only hell of prision should be the taking away of freedom of communing with your fellow human beings and enjoying the outside world. We still must offer healthy food and med care, a chance to learn and grow, to our inmates who will be released.