Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jess · 07-29-2002, 02:05 PM

to be demonstrated: the Christian devil exists

postulation: the Christian devil wants to 'win souls away from the Christian God'

postulation: the Christian devil does this by offering something in exchange for the soul--- ala Dr. Faustus

observation: There exist Children's Hosptials with terminal wards

observation: There exist some parents of said terminally ill children who are willing to sacrifice anything, including own soul, for child

observation: terminally ill children die.

Conclusion: no devil has offered to parent to exchange soul for child's life.

Conclusion contradicts postulations.

Therefore: the devil cannot exist as stated in the QED.

overly simple, yes, but any problems with it? I have stated it to several believers, and have been yelled at but not contradicted...

(of course, if the devil does not exist, it is a short step to the anti-devil not existing...)

foursquareman · 07-29-2002, 04:11 PM

the second postulation isn't correct. You can't really guess as to what Satan does, or say for certain what his objectives are, except what you get from the bible. Souls aren't like trading cards.

hinduwoman · 07-29-2002, 05:25 PM

Let me play the Devil's advocate.

The Devil is very choosy. He signs contracts for only worthwhile souls. therefore everyone does not get to see him.

Many severely ill people do get well. How do you know this was not because a pact had been signed with Him?

Veil of Fire · 07-29-2002, 05:36 PM

Quote:

except what you get from the bible

The Bible, and any other similarly reliable mythological sources dealing with Satan (ie, "Dr. Faustus", Milton, Mather, etc).

foursquareman · 07-29-2002, 05:41 PM

then we aren't dealing with the christian devil, but something else.

GunnerJ · 07-29-2002, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foursquareman:
<strong>then we aren't dealing with the christian devil, but something else.</strong>

Actually, we aren't dealing with the Biblical devil. The devil Christians actually believe in has characteristics found mostly in Veil's works of literature, not just those (few) found in the Bible.

[ July 29, 2002: Message edited by: Rimstalker ]</p>

foursquareman · 07-29-2002, 06:17 PM

I guess I didn't realise there was a difference between the biblical devil and the christian devil.

Veil of Fire · 07-29-2002, 07:08 PM

Oh absolutely. The Biblical devil isn't even really evil, he's God's beta-tester. See the book of Job.

foursquareman · 07-29-2002, 07:31 PM

where in the book of job does it say that the devil isn't evil?

[ July 29, 2002: Message edited by: foursquareman ]</p>

excreationist · 07-29-2002, 07:39 PM

from <a href="http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/PageCategory.asp#Satan" target="_blank">Barna Research Online</a>, an American Christian research group:

Quote:

- Nearly three out of five adults (58%) say that the devil, or Satan, is not a living being but is a symbol of evil. (2001)
- 45% of born again Christians deny Satan's existence. (2001)
- Nearly seven out of ten Catholics (68%) say the devil is non-existent, compared to 60% of Protestant mainline church attenders, 51% of Baptists and 50% of Protestant non-mainline church attenders who agree that Satan is only a symbol of evil. (2001)
- Men emerge as slightly more likely than woman to believe that Satan is just a symbol of evil (61% to 55%, respectively). (2001)
- Two-thirds of adults (69%) are aware that the Bible describes Satan, or the devil, as an angel who formerly served God in Heaven. (1994)

07-29-2002, 02:05 PM	#1
jess Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: rationalpagans.com Posts: 7,400	Christian devil does not exist, QED to be demonstrated: the Christian devil exists postulation: the Christian devil wants to 'win souls away from the Christian God' postulation: the Christian devil does this by offering something in exchange for the soul--- ala Dr. Faustus observation: There exist Children's Hosptials with terminal wards observation: There exist some parents of said terminally ill children who are willing to sacrifice anything, including own soul, for child observation: terminally ill children die. Conclusion: no devil has offered to parent to exchange soul for child's life. Conclusion contradicts postulations. Therefore: the devil cannot exist as stated in the QED. overly simple, yes, but any problems with it? I have stated it to several believers, and have been yelled at but not contradicted... (of course, if the devil does not exist, it is a short step to the anti-devil not existing...)

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07-29-2002, 04:11 PM	#2
foursquareman Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 63	the second postulation isn't correct. You can't really guess as to what Satan does, or say for certain what his objectives are, except what you get from the bible. Souls aren't like trading cards.

07-29-2002, 05:25 PM	#3
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Let me play the Devil's advocate. The Devil is very choosy. He signs contracts for only worthwhile souls. therefore everyone does not get to see him. Many severely ill people do get well. How do you know this was not because a pact had been signed with Him?

07-29-2002, 05:41 PM	#5
foursquareman Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 63	then we aren't dealing with the christian devil, but something else.

07-29-2002, 06:17 PM	#7
foursquareman Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 63	I guess I didn't realise there was a difference between the biblical devil and the christian devil.

07-29-2002, 07:08 PM	#8
Veil of Fire Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 451	Oh absolutely. The Biblical devil isn't even really evil, he's God's beta-tester. See the book of Job.

07-29-2002, 07:31 PM	#9
foursquareman Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 63	where in the book of job does it say that the devil isn't evil? [ July 29, 2002: Message edited by: foursquareman ]</p>

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