Amos

Except that this authority has inspired sources and will never need to rely on medical procedures to either get pregnant or do away with an unwanted pregnancy. Let's just ponder for a moment why so many of us today find it increasingly difficult to get pregnant and why many others think that motherhood is just not for them.

pilaar

Thanks everybody for your advice!

I think that they keep records locally and remove people as they die, it
may be more complicated now because people move around more. I
have a day off on Monday and I will call up local Catholic office here in
Australia, but I was baptised back in Europe so I may have to wait until my
next trip there. That is why I was hoping to go through their central office
in Vatican, hoping that they then advise the local Diocese, I could not
find local info on the net.

I don't really have any problems with God, I intend to take my whole soul -
imprint and all with me.
I only have problem with organised religions.

I never really was a voluntary member of Catholic church, my parents made me
go until I was 12 and I had to complete all the ceremonies they have. After that
it was my choice and I only went back about couple of times over the years (wedding,
funeral etc). I did get caught into pentecostal church about 3 years
ago though, I really believed for about 3 month then it took me 8 months to leave the church, but the recovery from the whole thing takes longer because you do get messed up quite a bit in a church. Initially I got attracted by the promise of justice, peace and equality which of course these can not be found in the church especially for a woman, unless you are a macohist. The initial experience of conversion was really weird though, it is like you
get a brain fever or as if you are somehow hypnotised, you end up believing anything you get told even if it makes no sense. But it didn't last long with me as
I tend to like to know things as they are and not as I or others would like them
to be, so I tend to do a lot of research and I'm not afraid of hard
questions. I realised that the claims Christianity makes are not true.

I was also repelled by the sexism. At first I thought that sexism was due to
ignorance and due to the chruch being behind times as ussual. But after
researching the situation I realised that the sexism in christianity is very purposeful,
consistent, pervasive, sometimes blatantly open and sometimes insidiously
hidden - but it is always there. The sole purpose of it is to make & keep
women oppresed - spiritually, physically, economically, politically - and
the christian teaching is designed to ensure that this happens. They go the extent
with which they can get away with in a particular time/society. The extent depends on the conditions in the rest of the society. I was really hurt by it and I still haven't totally
recovered, but at the same time I am glad I had the experience because it
did open my eyes. I relised that compacency is not enough, one has to
be active to prevent the doctrines of the christian church being impsed on the rest of
the society.


You got it!

PaladInChrist, you will find that christianity is full of statements you
just made. They serve a number of purposes:
1)They are ambiguous and meaningles to keep the minds of the believers
occupied so that they run around in circles trying to understand and find a
meaning of something which doesn't have one. While so occupied, they miss
the crap that goes around them - which is exactly the aim of the meaningless
statements.

2) The meaningless statements give a sense of mystery to christianity, there
is supposedly some deeper meaning to them if you just persist hard enough, or
believe hard enough - they will then make sense....
So they serve as a carrot on a string, believers run after them trying to
understand them which again diverts their attention from the crap that goes
around them.

3) Statements like the one you made keep believers on their toes - they are ambiguous with the direction but they imply that the path is trecherous and supposedly filled with
danger, it gives the believers a sense of excitement, adventure, importance,
but also fear and doubt. The contradictions and ambiguity keeps them treading on a knife's edge, they are never quite sure exactly what being on the path entails but they sure can be damned if they don't stay on the path. Keeping people insecure is the best way to get them in a position
where they can be manipulated.

Etc.

What exactly are you saying Amos? Are you saying that no catholic men and
women are never infertile and are never treated for infertility? Are you saying that they never have
had unwanterd pregnancy? Are you saying that they never go to the doctors?
Do you go to the doctors if you break your leg? Or does "this authority with
inspried sources" fix your leg miraculoursly? Or are you saying that catholics never break their legs in the first place? What are you saying?

pilaar

Amos

Sorry to hear about your painfull recovery from a Pentecostal church and I hope that someday you will find a full recovery. I would ask you if it was that difficult to leave the Catholic church when you first went there or were you perhaps happy to leave the old Catholic church because they never really fed you the right stuff (ie. you either were searching or you got sucked in by them).

Yes Catholics can brake a leg but don't you agree that unwanted pregancies are not possible in a "sex for procreation only" policy?

Catholics have/should have an extremely high regard for females and are encouraged to always protect them. If you don't like that and wish take charge of your own life so you can be somebody it will be nice to know that at time you were nobody.

Yes, fertility problems increased dramatically in our "gender equal" society.

PaladInChrist

Hi pilaar-

I'm not sure what is ambigious about my statement...it is a quote from Scripture...about how following Jesus is a narrow road that is hard to complete, and how most people take the wide road leading to destruction. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Speaking of ambigious statements, I am a little confused by your terminology. You said "do away" with an "unwanted" pregnancy.'

Is that the "sexist" part of Catholicism that bothers you?

Could you be more precise? Are you refering to the brutal murder of an innocent baby because it interfers with your desired lifestyle?

abe smith

comment, that assuming that neither Amos NOR Paladin is capable of getting pregnant, All-That (including other people's attitudes & practises about pregnancy) are NONE OF AMOS'S NOR PALADIN"S BUSINESS. My position, thus, is extremist if you like. I reiterate that "She(sic) that pays the piper calls the tune." The only control *any* male has, and SHOULD have, over *any* pregnancy, is pre-conception, about WHERE he puts his dick, and what he permits to issue from it. Beyond that , pregnancy & its results & issues are out of his control

pilaar

I remember that I believed when I was very young (3 or 4). I stopped believing because christianity did not make any sense as it did not create any difference in daily life. Prayer did not make any difference in life, going to church on Sundays did not make any difference in daily life. The sermons and rituals in the church on Sunday did not translate to daily life so it was not hard to leave because it made no difference whether one believed or not. That is why I concluded that it was not true and therefore I could not wait to leave.

Ha, what a convenient and unworkable policy. Perhaps catholic god could have thought of this one before and make sure that people desire sex and pregnancies can occur only when the circumstances are right so that the child can be reared, loved and brought up in adequate conditions. But the way things actually do work, they point to non existence of creator god.

Protect females from what? Can catholics protect females from good luck, growing up, learning,
making choices, disasters, making mistakes, sickness, misfortune, loss, pain, joy, anger, sadness - which are all part of life. Are catholics encouraged to protect females from life?

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that being a female and taking responsiblility for ones own life somehow exclude each other? Also, what does being nobody or being somebody have to do with taking charge of ones life?
I always thought I just need to be me.


I am not sure what you mean.


Quote is meaningless because of the
contradictions (http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html ).
Eg.
Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal."
Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him."
vs.
Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians."
Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians."

Scripture creates a very wide road for christians as you can do anything and still be on that 'narrow road'.

The existence of large number of denominations holding opposing views also create a very wide road with numerous options for chrisitans. So, how can you justify saying that following Jesus is a very narrow road?

I was not stating my opinions about abortion, I was just asking Amos questions to figure out what he tried to say in his post.


pilaar

livius drusus

Amos said that, not pilaar. From Amos' post above:

It seems obvious to me that he's saying God both impregnates women and aborts their fetuses as he sees fit with no surgical tools whatsoever. However, one never knows with Amos, so if you require further clarification I suggest you ask him what he meant. Only when you do so, kindly refrain from using intentionally inflammatory language such as "brutal murder or innocent baby" as it is not acceptable in upper forum discussion.

ComestibleVenom

Damn right it's my business if I'm going to be paying for the little bastards for the rest of my life.

I wish it wasn't any of the man's responsibility, but it is legally it is.

pilaar

I thought about what you said and I don't agree with you on cutting off a male in this way. I would not be making any decision without discussing it with the man involved, because it would not be fair. Many males do care about their offspring.

Thanks for picking this one up, I wondered where he got that one. I was in a hurry when I typed up the reply and I did not check the details thoroughly.

Why do you think about your kids in this way? Parent's actions are not the fault of the kids.

pilaar

himynameisPwn

I'm gonna start a new thread on that quote, thats ridiculous.