Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Veil of Fire · 08-01-2002, 02:02 PM

...I need some help soothing a religious quarrel.

My bestest friend in the world, who I've known for over 10 years now, is finally involved with someone seriously. I go "YAY!". Problem: She's a Baptist, he's a Mormon. They've talked seriously about marriage, but can't do it until they've gotten over some of their differences, particularly in how to raise the kids, and if it's possible to worship together when she doesn't believe in the Mormon Elder-type System Thingie (Church is led by a Representative of God on Earth, like a pope). And the fact that he doesn't believe in the Trinity concept.

Now, I love this girl, and I'd hate to see this very promising thing go to hell in a handbasket (pun intended) over something as trivial as a minor religious difference. But not being particularly knowledgable about Mormons or inter-denominational relationships in general, I don't know how to help.

Is anyone here in any sort of interfaith marriage and willing to shed a bit of light on how it works and how differences like that can be overcome/worked around? I really don't know anywhere else to take this question (no, I'm NOT going to BaptistBoard with it :-b). Any suggestions?

Autonemesis · 08-01-2002, 02:13 PM

Temple marriage is the penultimate Mormon sacrament. It is only available to couples who are members in good standing. Unless your friend's fiance is unusually good at fending off busybodies, should they marry the pressure from his church for him to get her to convert will be relentless.

Mageth · 08-01-2002, 02:17 PM

I suspect they might be able to work out something and survive as a couple with different religions, but if they choose to have children, questions on what faith to raise them in could cause serious problems.

Viti · 08-01-2002, 02:21 PM

My sister in law was raised Mormon (no longer practicing) and I have a very good Mormon friend and worked for a Mormon family for four years...unfortunately all signs point to "it won't work" if he is a devout and practicing LDS member. Has your friend stated how devout this person is? I am assuming he is not devout because he is dating someone outside of his faith.

The "fundy" type Mormons believe they can not reach the upper levels of Heaven unless their marriage is "sealed" in a temple, they are sealed to their children, given their sacred underwear and they perform temple work. The temple ceremonies are apparently similar to Masonic rites in that they are sworn to secrecy, have secret handshakes and secret names (after death, women must be called by their secret name and perform the correct handshake to get into Heaven with their husband or so I read).

There are however millions of Mormons that do not posess a temple recommend (document stating you follow all the rules and so can enter a temple) and do not follow all of the rules but do not attempt to be removed from the membership rolls or get themselves excommunicated...like a "Christmas and Easter" Xian they go about their day to day life more or less apathetic to their religion. My S-I-L is like this, but when she tried to go back to chuch so her daughter could attend Sunday School they put her on "probation" and tried to get her to divorce my brother so she told them to screw themselves.

Now, I don't know how Baptist your friend is, but most fundy Protestant denominations consider the LDS Church to be a cult of Satan worshippers....so she could have her own problems from that side.

Veil of Fire · 08-01-2002, 02:28 PM

Well, she talked about going to church, and how he attends services but she doesn't feel comfortable because she doesn't believe in alot of the things they talk about... she's pretty devout, in a sensible kinda way. I wouldn't call her a fundy at ALL... I mean, she didn't change how she related to me even after my conversion and after I told her about my sexual preferences. But she attends church regularly, believes very strongly, and does her best to 'live right'.

She didn't mention how devout he was... I'll ask next time I talk to her.

I really want it to work... she's had some bad experiences in the past, and that this has gone for nine months with the only major problem being the church thing and the kids question is a giant leap for her in the 'successful relationship' department.

Of course, then again, I might just be trying to get her married for selfish reasons. If she's married, I can stop thinking about her as my first unrequited love. If that makes any sense.

But no, that can't be it, because I'm really genuinely happy for her. Hmm.

Dr Rick · 08-01-2002, 02:28 PM

It all depends on how dogmatic the two of them are as the two belief systems are fundamentally incompatible. While both Baptists and Mormons believe in Jesus Christ as a Savior, the latter believe in a multi-leveled heaven, a "pre-life," "secret" temple ceremonies, and the possibility that human souls can themselves become Gods, all of which are anathema to the former.

Mormons believe that they cannot ascend to the highest level of heaven upon death unless their marriage is "sealed" in a Mormon temple, but that cannot be done unless both husband and wife are members of the LDS Church in good-standing.

Many Baptists believe that Mormons worship "false gods" and pervert God's word with The Book of Mormon and so are not "true-Christians" and will go to hell upon death. A devout Baptist cannot in good conscious allow his/her children to be raised as Mormons

Other than being a supportive friend willing to listen, I don't see how you can help these people; they will have to help themselves.

Rick

Nikolai · 08-01-2002, 11:27 PM

Quote:

The "fundy" type Mormons believe they can not reach the upper levels of Heaven unless their marriage is "sealed" in a temple, they are sealed to their children, given their sacred underwear and they perform temple work. The temple ceremonies are apparently similar to Masonic rites in that they are sworn to secrecy, have secret handshakes and secret names (after death, women must be called by their secret name and perform the correct handshake to get into Heaven with their husband or so I read).

I can just see a women going to heaven after living the perfect Mormon life. THen she is asked about the handshake "Oh shit I forgot" and ends up burning in hell forever. WOuldnt mental disease cause you to forgot the secret stuff? But i digress...

I have some question about Mormon practices. How are the levels of heaven different? Are there any more rules in the Mormon book then in the Bible that must be followed? How can mortals become Gods, is it polytheistic or somehitng? I know very little about their faith so if anyone could explain this stuff to me it would be helpful.

08-02-2002, 01:53 AM

Maybe they should sink their differences and both become Unitarians or something.

Dr Rick · 08-02-2002, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikolai:
<strong>I have some question about Mormon practices. </strong>

We've got <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/mormonism/index.shtml" target="_blank">answers</a>.

Rick

Autonemesis · 08-02-2002, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikolai:
THen she is asked about the handshake "Oh shit I forgot" ...

Nah. She can just go look it up on <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22sure+sign+of+the+nail%22&btnG=Google+Search " target="_blank">Google</a>.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

08-01-2002, 02:02 PM	#1
Veil of Fire Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 451	This is WAY out of character for me, but... ...I need some help soothing a religious quarrel. My bestest friend in the world, who I've known for over 10 years now, is finally involved with someone seriously. I go "YAY!". Problem: She's a Baptist, he's a Mormon. They've talked seriously about marriage, but can't do it until they've gotten over some of their differences, particularly in how to raise the kids, and if it's possible to worship together when she doesn't believe in the Mormon Elder-type System Thingie (Church is led by a Representative of God on Earth, like a pope). And the fact that he doesn't believe in the Trinity concept. Now, I love this girl, and I'd hate to see this very promising thing go to hell in a handbasket (pun intended) over something as trivial as a minor religious difference. But not being particularly knowledgable about Mormons or inter-denominational relationships in general, I don't know how to help. Is anyone here in any sort of interfaith marriage and willing to shed a bit of light on how it works and how differences like that can be overcome/worked around? I really don't know anywhere else to take this question (no, I'm NOT going to BaptistBoard with it :-b). Any suggestions?

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08-01-2002, 02:13 PM	#2
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	Temple marriage is the penultimate Mormon sacrament. It is only available to couples who are members in good standing. Unless your friend's fiance is unusually good at fending off busybodies, should they marry the pressure from his church for him to get her to convert will be relentless.

08-01-2002, 02:17 PM	#3
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I suspect they might be able to work out something and survive as a couple with different religions, but if they choose to have children, questions on what faith to raise them in could cause serious problems.

08-01-2002, 02:21 PM	#4
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	My sister in law was raised Mormon (no longer practicing) and I have a very good Mormon friend and worked for a Mormon family for four years...unfortunately all signs point to "it won't work" if he is a devout and practicing LDS member. Has your friend stated how devout this person is? I am assuming he is not devout because he is dating someone outside of his faith. The "fundy" type Mormons believe they can not reach the upper levels of Heaven unless their marriage is "sealed" in a temple, they are sealed to their children, given their sacred underwear and they perform temple work. The temple ceremonies are apparently similar to Masonic rites in that they are sworn to secrecy, have secret handshakes and secret names (after death, women must be called by their secret name and perform the correct handshake to get into Heaven with their husband or so I read). There are however millions of Mormons that do not posess a temple recommend (document stating you follow all the rules and so can enter a temple) and do not follow all of the rules but do not attempt to be removed from the membership rolls or get themselves excommunicated...like a "Christmas and Easter" Xian they go about their day to day life more or less apathetic to their religion. My S-I-L is like this, but when she tried to go back to chuch so her daughter could attend Sunday School they put her on "probation" and tried to get her to divorce my brother so she told them to screw themselves. Now, I don't know how Baptist your friend is, but most fundy Protestant denominations consider the LDS Church to be a cult of Satan worshippers....so she could have her own problems from that side.

08-01-2002, 02:28 PM	#5
Veil of Fire Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 451	Well, she talked about going to church, and how he attends services but she doesn't feel comfortable because she doesn't believe in alot of the things they talk about... she's pretty devout, in a sensible kinda way. I wouldn't call her a fundy at ALL... I mean, she didn't change how she related to me even after my conversion and after I told her about my sexual preferences. But she attends church regularly, believes very strongly, and does her best to 'live right'. She didn't mention how devout he was... I'll ask next time I talk to her. I really want it to work... she's had some bad experiences in the past, and that this has gone for nine months with the only major problem being the church thing and the kids question is a giant leap for her in the 'successful relationship' department. Of course, then again, I might just be trying to get her married for selfish reasons. If she's married, I can stop thinking about her as my first unrequited love. If that makes any sense. But no, that can't be it, because I'm really genuinely happy for her. Hmm.

08-01-2002, 02:28 PM	#6
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	It all depends on how dogmatic the two of them are as the two belief systems are fundamentally incompatible. While both Baptists and Mormons believe in Jesus Christ as a Savior, the latter believe in a multi-leveled heaven, a "pre-life," "secret" temple ceremonies, and the possibility that human souls can themselves become Gods, all of which are anathema to the former. Mormons believe that they cannot ascend to the highest level of heaven upon death unless their marriage is "sealed" in a Mormon temple, but that cannot be done unless both husband and wife are members of the LDS Church in good-standing. Many Baptists believe that Mormons worship "false gods" and pervert God's word with The Book of Mormon and so are not "true-Christians" and will go to hell upon death. A devout Baptist cannot in good conscious allow his/her children to be raised as Mormons Other than being a supportive friend willing to listen, I don't see how you can help these people; they will have to help themselves. Rick

08-02-2002, 01:53 AM	#8
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Maybe they should sink their differences and both become Unitarians or something.

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