Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 07-26-2002, 01:59 PM

[oops wrong button again]

[ July 26, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

Dr Rick · 07-26-2002, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
I've seen people argue that disproving the first three chapters of Genesis invalidates Original Sin, the need for Christ's sacrifice, and at least some of Christ's teaching (e.g. he mentioned A&E)...although there are xians who believe in evolution and think that Genesis creation is a myth or fable, so at least they are able to work around the problem.

I wonder if they don't "work around the problem" as much as they simply ignore it. Disproving YEC does not disprove gods, but if Genesis is not accurate (and it just may not be with its tales of a talking snake, building a universe in 6 days from scratch, making day and night before there was a sun, and gaining knowledge by eating fruit) then the story of Original Sin and the subsequent need for torturing to death a decent man to appease a loving god becomes even harder to accept.

Rick

GeoTheo · 07-26-2002, 02:23 PM

That's because you are still a fundy Rick even though you are an atheist.

lpetrich · 07-26-2002, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba:
Amazing how ID always seems to lead back to a more and more conservative Christian view of the world than a scientific view, at least in terms of the people who promote it. The best arguement against it is that it adds no theoretical value to the scientific arguement about origins. If we could just make people understand that much, we'd have a chance...

Which must be why the ID guys are unwilling to speculate on how many designers had been involved. Comparison with human designers suggests that there had been multiple designers, as a consequence of there being a multitude of design patterns in the Earth's biota.

Quote:

Bubba:

I'd suggest reading "the Uplift War" by David Brin for a fictional look at what the universe might be like if life really was somehow perhaps seeded here by aliens...

What was in that story?

Bubba · 07-26-2002, 02:35 PM

There was a group called the progenitors that were discovered (dead). Since it is a group (dolphins) that humans have "uplifted" (modified for better fitness/intellect) that find them all the attention in the universe focuses on US. Battle takes place over a small planet that we have colonized.

It's unusual for a sci-fi novel in that it has pretty good charactorization.

The progenitors in the story are basically the first "race" or "civilization" in gallactic society. It is out of this initial group of "progenitors" that life and gallactic society supposedly has it's origins.

Brin makes some interesting philisophical points in the novel as I recall. It's been about 4 years since I've read it so I don't remember some of the details.

It's not bad for a 6 dollar paperback.

I think, though, that a previous posters subtle insinuation was right. Life would be MUCH different if the earth were a giant Biochem lab that someone had wound up a few billion years ago.

Bubba

Dr Rick · 07-26-2002, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
That's because you are still a fundy Rick even though you are an atheist.

Perhaps, but here's what I'm left wondering:

If parts of Genesis are inaccurate, how can we know what parts are valid?

If the Creation story is false, how do we know that the story of the Fall isn't false, as well?

If we can't be certain of Original Sin, how can we be certain that we need Jesus to be saved?

If Genesis is not accurate, how can we know that any part of the Bible is?

Since the Bible does not appear to be inerrant, what rationale is there to believe any of Christianity?

Rick

Mageth · 07-26-2002, 02:52 PM

Rick, you just described much of the path of cognitive dissonance that led to my de-conversion!

pz · 07-26-2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:

That statement sounds innocent enough, but if you are a truth monger and your empire of belief is built on a mountain of truth, it can have dire consequences. You wakeup one morning and your mountain is gone! And where does that leave you? In thin air!

Your comment makes no sense and has no relationship to what I wrote.

Bubba · 07-26-2002, 03:00 PM

Beleive me Rick, I understand why you deconverted...

Bubba

lynx · 07-26-2002, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba:

I'd suggest reading "the Uplift War" by David Brin for a fictional look at what the universe might be like if life really was somehow perhaps seeded here by aliens...

Bubba

uplift wars is book 3. start with sundiver(1) and startide rising(2).

07-26-2002, 01:59 PM	#11
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	[oops wrong button again] [ July 26, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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07-26-2002, 02:23 PM	#13
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	That's because you are still a fundy Rick even though you are an atheist.

07-26-2002, 02:35 PM	#15
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	There was a group called the progenitors that were discovered (dead). Since it is a group (dolphins) that humans have "uplifted" (modified for better fitness/intellect) that find them all the attention in the universe focuses on US. Battle takes place over a small planet that we have colonized. It's unusual for a sci-fi novel in that it has pretty good charactorization. The progenitors in the story are basically the first "race" or "civilization" in gallactic society. It is out of this initial group of "progenitors" that life and gallactic society supposedly has it's origins. Brin makes some interesting philisophical points in the novel as I recall. It's been about 4 years since I've read it so I don't remember some of the details. It's not bad for a 6 dollar paperback. I think, though, that a previous posters subtle insinuation was right. Life would be MUCH different if the earth were a giant Biochem lab that someone had wound up a few billion years ago. Bubba

07-26-2002, 02:52 PM	#17
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Rick, you just described much of the path of cognitive dissonance that led to my de-conversion!

07-26-2002, 03:00 PM	#19
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Beleive me Rick, I understand why you deconverted... Bubba

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