Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sabine Grant · 11-08-2002, 03:44 AM

Galiel, I cannot consider what you have presented here more of an X File scenario than some of the versions and interpretations I will approach of the End Times in the Bible.
I believe though that the Constitution will preserve the pluralism ( hope it is the right word) of this nation.
I also believe that there are more christians such as myself who want to uphold the Separation of Church and State. We are so divided, Galiel, in the body of believers that the whole thing would self destruct eventualy. We are not unified despite of our claim to have the commonness in Christ.You may see christians fighting alongside with you.

Stephen Maturin · 11-08-2002, 04:18 AM

Quote:

I feel like I have to LEAVE America for religious freedom!

Your frustration is understandable, tdekeyser, and lots of people have felt that way over the years. Hell, I was in a funk for weeks upon realizing just how inevitable it was that Reagan would be elected to a second term. Hang in there, though. As long as we've got people willing to fight the good fight, progress can and will be made.

The federal judge situation is disheartening, but even that isn't as bad as it looks. If history teaches us anything, it's that appointing federal judges is a big fat crap shoot. Presidents make appointments based on the appointee's past record and public statements. However, those Article III protections (life tenure and no diminution in pay) have been known to cause a complete about-face. This isn't likely to happen with an academic such as McConnell, but academics tend to perform rather poorly on appellate courts anyway. For a long-time politician, though, Article III confers a sort of freedom that s/he may never have experienced before.

Who knows? Maybe a Bush appointee will end up being the next William Brennan.

tdekeyser · 11-08-2002, 05:38 AM

Do you think one of Bush's judges will rule that the Pledge is unconstitutional? I doubt it, but it is....

I'm quiting my job and becoming a full-time secular activist!

Rusting Car Bumper · 11-08-2002, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdekeyser:
This is just so frustrating to be an atheist.

To be blunt but he who angers you, controls you.

Things will change. Maybe its too much of an instant MTV generation but people seem to be focusing on the last 5 minutes.

If you think things are wrong, running away won't help. The world is not a static place. You are a part of it and you can change it. You can't simply blame some state of the world on everyone but yourself when you are a part of the world.

DC

Stephen Maturin · 11-08-2002, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdekeyser:
Do you think one of Bush's judges will rule that the Pledge is unconstitutional? I doubt it, but it is....

I doubt it too, but hey, one of Nixon's judges did (the inclusion of "under God"; not the whole Pledge, of course).

Quote:

I'm quiting my job and becoming a full-time secular activist!

That's the stuff!

BibleBelted · 11-08-2002, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Primordial Groove:

How do you fight lifetime appointments?

Before they're confirmed. We have to be prepared to make well-reasoned and consistent arguments as to why we would be opposed to an evangelical, rapture-ready fundy being appointed to the Supreme Court (or any other for that matter) and why any Senator who votes to confirm such does so at their own peril.

Bush is not claiming a mandate, and for good reason. He knows this election does not amount to one. The fundys may be vocal, but they in no way constitute anything close to a majority in this country. It is going to be up to people of good will to turn the tide, which may already have turned but we are just too paranoid to realize it. If you don't believe me, look and see how many Republicans are avoiding Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson like the plague.

I agree completely that we need to be diligent, and constantly needle these fundy nitwits for what must be the most intellectually impoverished political movement ever seen in any open society . . but there's no need for panic.

These yokels got to hide in the shadows and snipe and bitch without any accountability before. Now they are out in the open - actually on the field of battle.

And now we're going to whip their asses!

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: BibleBelted ]

RawData · 11-08-2002, 10:03 AM

[
question:

How do you fight lifetime appointments?

RawData · 11-08-2002, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RawData:
[
question:

How do you fight lifetime appointments?

Forgot to add answer!

I know of one way, but they wouldn't approve and would put you in jail for a long time (or electrocute you).
RD

Toto · 11-08-2002, 10:12 AM

Assassination is not one of the methods I would advocate. Not only is it illegal and immoral, but it is usually counterproductive.

The issue that defeated Bork, that is most likely to defeat these conservative judges, is PRIVACY. It's all-American. Even Christians who want to see stricter law enforcement don't want the government snooping in their bedrooms.

It's our only hope.

RawData · 11-08-2002, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdekeyser:
This is just so frustrating to be an atheist.

This country is going to be all screwed up due to Bush's policies and his nominations for judges. Not to mention all the Republicans that are now in office. Bush had about 40 judges nominated by him that were blocked by a Democratic leader guy (not sure of the name). That guy stepped down after the elections and now all the judges that were nominated by Bush will get through to positions on the bench says the news.

DOES EVERYONE REMEMBER THAT BUSH SAID JUDGES SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF OUR RIGHTS CAME FROM GOD??!!?? What an idiotic prejudice ASS!!!

Now we are going to have all these fundy judges in very POWERFUL seats! This scares the SHIT out of me!!!

I almost feel like I have to "FLEE" to another country for religious freedom!!!

That is absolutely ridicules!!!

You are certainly not alone in worrying. Ever read "Revolt in 2100" by Robert Heinlein?

Bush/Ashcroft are looking more and more like Nehemia Scudder.

Yes, indeed I worry.

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11-08-2002, 03:44 AM	#41
Sabine Grant Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 32,364	Galiel, I cannot consider what you have presented here more of an X File scenario than some of the versions and interpretations I will approach of the End Times in the Bible. I believe though that the Constitution will preserve the pluralism ( hope it is the right word) of this nation. I also believe that there are more christians such as myself who want to uphold the Separation of Church and State. We are so divided, Galiel, in the body of believers that the whole thing would self destruct eventualy. We are not unified despite of our claim to have the commonness in Christ.You may see christians fighting alongside with you.

11-08-2002, 05:38 AM	#43
tdekeyser Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 341	Do you think one of Bush's judges will rule that the Pledge is unconstitutional? I doubt it, but it is.... I'm quiting my job and becoming a full-time secular activist!

11-08-2002, 10:03 AM	#47
RawData Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Puget Sound, WA, US Posts: 1,022	[ question: How do you fight lifetime appointments?

11-08-2002, 10:12 AM	#49
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Assassination is not one of the methods I would advocate. Not only is it illegal and immoral, but it is usually counterproductive. The issue that defeated Bork, that is most likely to defeat these conservative judges, is PRIVACY. It's all-American. Even Christians who want to see stricter law enforcement don't want the government snooping in their bedrooms. It's our only hope.

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