Dark Jedi

To your first response: What? Your response has nothing to do with my statement. Your response is also illogical and absurd. Many historical documents are referenced by those wishing to prove the bible true. Are you claiming that the bible cannot be proven true? Your logic says this is so.


To your second response: Jerry fallwell most assuredly could respond to such a claim. He is not seeking prayer in that case, he is not attempting to convert. He is correcting a falsehood. People are not forbidden from teaching or speaking in school because they are religious, they are only forbidden from preaching, or attempting to lead prayer.

Dark Jedi

I'm gonna have to go with deliberate. Nobody can be that dense without a concerted effort.

dk

If I've been obtuse its because the principle of "religious censorship" is obtuse in the context of the modern secular state. .

frostymama

Kind of off topic, but I went to college for awhile in Wise, VA. I was actually the vice-president of one of the religious student unions there.

dk

<ol type="1">[*]Dark Jedi: To your first response: What? Your response has nothing to do with my statement. Your response is also illogical and absurd. Many historical documents are referenced by those wishing to prove the bible true. Are you claiming that the bible cannot be proven true? Your logic says this is so.
dk: You haven’t provided sufficient context for me to respond, but the Bible is a source of doctrine and dogma interpreted differently by many people. There are 30,000 Christian Sects, and each interprets the Bible differently.[*]Dark Jedi: To your second response: Jerry Farwell most assuredly could respond to such a claim. He is not seeking prayer in that case, he is not attempting to convert. He is correcting a falsehood. People are not forbidden from teaching or speaking in school because they are religious, they are only forbidden from preaching, or attempting to lead prayer.
dk: Religious speech is censored in public schools, and vocal prayer is one particular aspect of religious censorship. But if a class presented Jerry Farwell's views on homosexuality, the Popes views on birth control, or an Orthodox Jews views on diet, the teacher would be subject to discipline, and if the school fails to discipline the teacher the school can be sued. Religious censorship extends way beyond vocal speech to religious music, art, texts, cloths, history, icons and culture. I specified “vocal prayer” as specific not a general.[/list=a]

I'm not sure why you want to broaden the issue, I was trying to stay on topic, "prayer in school"

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

dk

Arrowman
Er - care to expand on this? I don't follow (and I doubt Dark Jedi does, either).

dk A secular history book might teach the IRA is a Catholic terrorist group, or the Irish struggle for independence a Religious War. There's simply no mechanism for Christians to correct secular history, written by secular historians.

Toto

dk - I have to admit that I sometimes can't seem to follow what you are saying, but this is manifestly untrue. Lots of Christians practice secular history, and when anti-Christian statements are made, they can respond and correct any errors that they can correct using secular sources and methods.

On the other hand, the Pope or an archbishop could not argue in a public school against a secular history book by showing that the author's work was on the Index and should not be read, or that the author had been excommunicated for false theological doctrines. That would be imposing theology on the study of history.

Do you get the difference? If not, I don't know what else to say.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

dk

Well lets examine the Scopes Monkey Trial. The history has become so bent that the movie portryal is taught in college classrooms as historical fact. Clearly the whole issue has been polarized to advance a warped view of history that serves no one. Here's a discussion about the topic, <a href="http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~sssi/debates/sicrit.html" target="_blank">Can SSSI Be Critical?</a>

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

Toto

dk - either you are a troll, or you have a very bizarre sense of humor, or you are operating on some other plane of existence. But I am not about to wade through that volume of crypto-theological discussion of post-modernist Critical Navel Gazing to find out.

Daggah

I dunno, Toto. I think the simplest explanation is best: dk is...well he's not all there.