Mageth

Badfish:

I like this one, who were the monkeys ancestors? And where did there ancestors come from and so on? Did they just *poof* appear from nowhere?

Not according to science, and I sure don't claim that. I hinted at what I think is the "first cause" (I don't like that term in this context, BTW) for the origin of life in my earlier post - biochemistry and self-organizing principles. If you want more, go to the E&C forum and ask this question.

"Poofing" from nothing is a religious claim - that's how god(s) allegedly create. Science doesn't claim that at all.

Your so wrapped up in answering questions with incomplete science that "First Cause" doesn't concern you?

I'm not "wrapped up in answering questions with incomplete science." My "from their ancestors" response was obviously not intended as a scientifically-satisfying answer. Go to the E&C forum for a more thorough answer to these scientific questions of yours.

You are satisfied to have little knowledge of evolution, yet have no interest in what put those event's into motion?

You're sure claiming to know a lot about me, when in truth you know very little. I'd recommend you refrain from making such accusatory statements as this.

I would like to think I have more than just a little knowledge of evolution, though I don't claim to know a lot, and I'm sure not satisfied with what I know. That's why I continue to read what I can on the subject.

And I have quite a bit of interest in "what put those event's into motion." But that's abiogenesis, not evolution, a linked but different subject.

Isn't anyone interested in the truth of our existence?

Sure I am. That's what led me to abandon the non-truth of the Christian God. You may be mistaking a lack of belief (in supernatural first causes) for a lack of interest.

Calzaer, Put away that razor, before you hurt someone, no has answered my questions about where did monkeys come from, where did their ancestors come from, etc.

I like to open my mind and explore all avenues,

I included the above two statements together because, if the second is really true, then I'd like to recommend that you go out and do some serious reading, study, and open-minded consideration of the subjects of evolution and abiogenesis from a non-creationist standpoint. I believe the Evolution & Creation forum has a sticky thread with recommended reading.

but without a first cause

If you're talking about the origin of life here, then I pointed you in the general direction of a natural "first cause" already - broadly stated, biochemistry and self-organizing principles. I'm not going into it in any more depth in this forum. Ask these questions in E&C if you want a more thorough explanation on where science has gone an may be going on the subject of abiogenesis.

and an absence of man

I don't understand this comment.

to be able to explain the grand scale uniqueness of the millions of species, then I have to default to creation.

And I would assume the Biblical Genesis creation myth is the one you've "defaulted" to. Tell me, how did your marble happen to land in that particular slot on the roulette wheel of the thousands of different creation myths of humankind?

Not to mention I am a Christian. And for good reason,

See the above roulette question. And not that one could go east and find Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists (among many other religions) who would perhaps make the same statement.

My guess is the primary reason you're Christian is because your parents are Christian, and your society is predominantly Christian. If you were from Cairo you would likely be Moslem, from Calcutta Hindu, etc.

And also, which particular kind of Christian?

reason's that would escape the minds of the continuous unbeliever and scoffer.

I was a Christian until about three years ago - for the first 45 years of my life. So I hardly think I'm a "continuous unbeliever". And many if not most of the atheists/agnostics on this board share a similar Christian background.

And I, for one, am not a "scoffer." My wife, my parents, and most of my siblings are Christians. The fact that my parents were Christian is what I owe my former Christian predilection to.

Please refrain from making such judgments and exhibiting such prejudices as you seem wont to do.

Sabine Grant

Salut Mageth!.... I am sincerely glad that you have restored in our minds the importance of not making assumptions about another individual. From the few encounters I have had with you in this forum, I have always appreciated the fact that you measure your words, you remain evenhanded and quite pleasant. As a result and as a theist, my mind may be more influenced by your thoughts and be motivated to introspect because of your intent to remain non adversarial.

You are one the participants in this forum who has unknowingly allowed me to revise some of my thoughts. My faith is intact... but how I reflect on certain matters has been modified. Kind of like " smoothing angles".....
To add water to a potential well between you and badfish... Badfish is relatively new to this forum. I think it says it all. I remember my first few weeks here....

.

Mageth

<blush> Thanks, Sabine. That means a lot to me. I've always respected the same evenhandedness and pleasantness in your posts.

Note that I would be the first to admit that I haven't always measured my words, remained evenhanded and quite pleasant. There are some adversarial theists around who get my gander up every once in a while. I've mellowed quite a bit from my first days on the boards, however (when I was a fresh, and rather angry, atheist), and try to temper my responses to those sorts as well.

Note that I'm not interested in converting anyone away from their faith; merely in getting people to think about what they believe. If I've succeeded even a bit, which appears to be the case with you, then I count my time here as a success.

Sabine Grant

Merci Mageth... I aknowledge too that I have my moments when just about anyone will " get my gander up" ( this is a new expression in English for me... will probably use it a lot).
You all have a nice evening.

Biff the unclean

That would be "get my dander up," in English.
Dander means anger, while a gander is a male goose.

Calzaer

Badfish: Why is your "first cause" any better than mine? You have an uncaused cause that caused my uncaused cause. What uncaused cause caused your uncaused cause? This entire discussion is completely meaningless. Why do you insist on adding turtles to the bottom of the stack?

Mageth

That would be "get my dander up," in English.
Dander means anger, while a gander is a male goose.

Yup; "get my gander up" may be a bastardization/americanization of "dander up."

Calzaer

To the top with you! You can't be on page 2 while I'm still waiting for an answer!

Spaz

How much cause would an uncaused cause if an uncaused could cause cause?

Calzaer

Actually, it should be more complicated than that. It should be "How much cause would an uncaused cause cause if an uncaused cause could cause cause?"

The answer, of course, is "Enough to produce Badfish to do an abysmal job of defending the necessity of a supernatural uncaused cause."