Nickle

This is a question for theists. I'm having a hard time trying to define a soul (no surprise). Other than the usual problems mentioned on these boards, I'm wondering when did we aquire this soul?

It has been mentioned that there was no first human. This is like trying to define who was the first Frenchman (Frenchperson?). There is just a gradual progression from our shared ancestors with the other apes to modern human. I find it impossible to attach souls to these early ancestors without attaching them to almost all animals (modern chimpanzees are surely as deserving of a soul as are our early primate ancestors). So do chimps have souls too?

If not, then I think this is a major problem for the existence of a soul.

This question is directed towards the 'evolutionary theists.' Obviously, a YEC's response circumvents these problems. However, that's a new can of worms (old?) and better suited for the Evo/Cre board, which is why I am asking on this board.

So how does it work, did Homo erectus have a soul? Do they enjoy the benefits of eternal life?

Badfish

Well if God created Homo erectus, then he was able to give him a soul. A soul isn't the result of mortal evolution.

A soul would probably become a reality when one leaves their body, or it is present and not manifested until mortal death.

But basically a good question, have you checked the bible?

Marduk

“So how does it work, did Homo erectus have a soul? Do they enjoy the benefits of eternal life?”

If the “'evolutionary theists” are Hindu they would say yes, all living things have souls, there is reincarnation but no ‘eternal’ life until you reach Nirvana “where the winds of karma no longer blow”
I think a Christian evolutionary theist would say no, Homo erectus were animals, only homo sapiens have souls. They were a special creation, described in Genesis, when God blew a soul into Adam’s nostrils or something.

Badfish

God breathed life into Adams nostrils, because he spontaneously created him.

Nickle

Except for the belief, as marduck pointed out, that every creature has a soul, theists usually reserve that honor for humans.

When was that point that we became human?

Basically, I'm not really asking if erectus had a soul, I'm asking what was the first creature to aquire a soul. I'm pretty sure the archaebacteria-like creatures of a few billion years ago don't count, but humans which evolved from them do. It's somewhere in between. So we've narrowed it down a bit. I mentioned the chimp to illustrate a possible limit: if the shared ancestor of humans and chimps have a soul, then so do chimps.

Well, the bible doesn't really run into this problem, as there is no common descent mentioned. It pretty much gives souls exclusively to humans. The problem from the OP still stands: there is no distintion between non-human and human. It's gradual.

Speechless

Right. Was this before or after Sauron forged the rings of power?

Nickle

Ah, I missed that post.
As I said in the OP, the question was directed at theists who do not believe in a literal genesis (or non-theist who want to take a go at it as a theist stand-in).
Such beliefs create their own problems which the evo board is here for.

So basically, assuming common descent, when did we get souls?

Badfish

You need a theist to answer because a-theism is void of God or Gods and a soul is not a part of that position.

Badfish

We did not evolve from monkeys!! Or worse yet microbes. When God said he breathed life into the nostrils of Adam, did he wait around for billions of years waiting for him to evolve?

Demigawd

Of course not. Humans and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.

I'm not ashamed of my microscopic ancestry. Why are you?

Actually, it has been humans who've asserted for years and years that a supposed God "breathed life into the nostrils of Adam". So far, any supreme creator has remained remarkably silent on the issue.