Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GunnerJ · 12-03-2001, 05:57 PM

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If you read in the Bible, I believe it's Romans 1, it says that God made us with an innate sense of Him. So we all know that there is One out there who created everything, therefore we all have knowledge of Him.

Wrong. We can infer from Romans 1 that Paul thought that all people have an innate knowledge of god. We can make no claims about what people actually have "innate knowledge" of from this. Not only that, but the whole claim begs a huge question when contrasted with reality: why isn't everyone worshiping Jesus if this is the case?

excreationist · 12-03-2001, 05:59 PM

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Originally posted by Mad Kally:
How about that sweet little bedtime prayer for kids:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep..
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord my soul to take..

That brings back memories... my parents made me say it until I was in my mid-teens...

buttercup · 12-03-2001, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Wrong. We can infer from Romans 1 that Paul thought that all people have an innate knowledge of god. We can make no claims about what people actually have "innate knowledge" of from this. Not only that, but the whole claim begs a huge question when contrasted with reality: why isn't everyone worshiping Jesus if this is the case?

Actually- if one believes in the consistancy of the Bible, as I do, then we can infer from Romans 1 that people do have an innate knowledge of God. The Bible was written by men, and I can understand why people would think that it was whatever they wanted in the Bible, but God wrote it through them, if that makes sense.

excreationist · 12-03-2001, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttercup:
If you read in the Bible, I believe it's Romans 1, it says that God made us with an innate sense of Him. So we all know that there is One out there who created everything, therefore we all have knowledge of Him.

<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1+Timothy+2%3A8-15&version=NIV&showfn=yes&showxref=yes&language=en glish" target="_blank">1 Timothy 2:8-15</a>:

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I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women [or she] will be saved [or restored] through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1+Corinthians+14%3A33-35&version=NIV&showfn=yes&showxref=yes&language=en glish" target="_blank">1 Corinthians 14:33-35</a>:

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For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Just wondering what you think of Paul now? Is he always right?

[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: JohnClay ]

Queen of Swords · 12-03-2001, 06:38 PM

What a brilliant, compassionate god. He made everyone with just enough of a sense of Him that they would go to hell (w/o His killing Himself), but not enough of a sense of Him that they would know Him and worship Him without the conversion efforts of His followers (and sometimes not even then).

Such competence should be rewarded. Here you go, God <THWACK>

GunnerJ · 12-03-2001, 07:00 PM

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Actually- if one believes in the consistancy of the Bible,

Yes... if we believe this, if...

Lone Wolf · 12-03-2001, 07:26 PM

Bcup, not that you'll answer this either, but...

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Actually- if one believes in the consistancy of the Bible, as I do,

Actually - if one believes in the consistancy of the Qu'ran , Torah, Bhagavad Gita, Qabalah, etc., as millions of others do...

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then we can infer from Romans 1 that people do have an innate knowledge of God.

Then why are there Hindus and Muslums and Ipuists? Does god not have his programming fully debugged?

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The Bible was written by men, and I can understand why people would think that it was whatever they wanted in the Bible, but God wrote it through them, if that makes sense.

Nope, it doesn't. If the big guy is so all-powerful, why such a sloppy way to convey his 'message'? And dontcha think he could have released an updated version by now? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Bree · 12-03-2001, 07:27 PM

buttercup -

You didn't answer Lone Wolf's question - you remember, the one you had to 'inquire' about and then promised you would offer some more of your excellent insight as soon as you found it?

David Gould · 12-03-2001, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buttercup:
[QB]

If you read in the Bible, I believe it's Romans 1, it says that God made us with an innate sense of Him. So we all know that there is One out there who created everything, therefore we all have knowledge of Him.

QB]

Do you have to believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and died for our sins and was resurrected in order to be saved?

In other words, from my Borneoian thread on the 'Existence of God' board, can the Borneoians go to heaven? How?

MOJO-JOJO · 12-04-2001, 06:25 AM

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Originally posted by Magethlaro:
My maw-in-law is a mentally ill fundie xian.

Is this out of the ordinary??

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12-03-2001, 06:38 PM	#65
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	What a brilliant, compassionate god. He made everyone with just enough of a sense of Him that they would go to hell (w/o His killing Himself), but not enough of a sense of Him that they would know Him and worship Him without the conversion efforts of His followers (and sometimes not even then). Such competence should be rewarded. Here you go, God <THWACK>

12-03-2001, 07:27 PM	#68
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	buttercup - You didn't answer Lone Wolf's question - you remember, the one you had to 'inquire' about and then promised you would offer some more of your excellent insight as soon as you found it?

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