Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Seeker196 · 01-26-2002, 01:40 AM

It seems to my mind that intelligent Xians, the mentally normal, must be full of fear of their mortality. Why else are they so emotionally attached to their belief?

But I believe that it is a fear founded in the noblest parts of human nature, which is why they are the majority.

The fear is not so much for yourself, because if death is nothing then you won't even know about. If you die relatively peacefully then there probably won't be much of you around to do anything.
People say death is a mystery, yet have we not all experienced death in unconsciousness, such things as general anesthesia? Why don't we ask the unconscious what death is like when they wake up?
Still not very comforting, but better than an eternity of hell for most people. I think even heaven would be awful for me knowing that most people I know had been 'justly' condemned for eternity...

What really scares good people is the death of others, especially loved ones and the innocent. Children can and do die awfully, and without 'purpose' at any time. The lost potential, the unfairness of it, tears at our hearts. The effect on the mothers and fathers and siblings is terrible. What sensitive soul would not say anything, do anything, or even believe anything in the face of such monumental suffering? Who wouldn't grasp at any remotely plausible straw in a sea of darkness?

And yet we refuse to believe what we wish were true(life after death) without proof. (faith is believing something because you wish it were so). Most religions are about tossing us that mental lifering.

So I can very much understand why someone would remain a Christian. It is more difficult to understand our situation. It is, in some ways, a grim situation. There is light, thank whatever, though. Beauty, truth, love, comfort exist for us to snatch at while we may. But we recognize that life is unfair and fleeting. That we are not a the center of a cosmic drama, but just an oddity, a MAN ON STREET in filmscript terms to the universe.

How can mentally normal, sensitive people accept such a conclusion, no matter how logical?

Are we just incredible short-sighted and provincial? I don't think so.

I think the typical agnostic/atheist is maybe a little...harder? mentally tougher? Crazier?

I think many of us do have 'faith' to some extent in technological progress, that one day we may be able to push back Death in some manner until we are ready for it...it's a progress that will hardly benefit anyone alive today, but it does give us a nice feeling that maybe all mankinds glorious imaginings won't just amount to the cosmic equivalent of a fart.

I'd also like to think that ag/aths have a certain...veneration?! is that the word? A certain veration or love of truth. We love truth a lot, more than we love comfort, or security, or even life I think, on some level at least. We could delude ourselves. We could accept Pascal's wager and think "It's total BS, but what the heck...maybe the 0.000000000000000000000001 % chance....", but we don't because we love truth too much.

Enough stroking of your collective ego for now!!

Scrutinizer · 01-26-2002, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seeker196:
Why Are Christians So Full of Fear?

I'm not.

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

Seeker196 · 01-26-2002, 02:11 AM

Of course no Christian will admit it. That would ruin the fantasy they must cling to.

But when the car starts to go off the cliff, or whatever, we quickly find that Christians are, in fact, just as terrified of death as anyone. In life-threatening situations you will hear the usual "O God I don't want to die, I'm so afraid, O God help me" etc. despite the fact that you would think a Christian would embrace a natural death.

Only the very well brainwashed can totally shut of their brains and believe in this nonsense like the suicide bombers.

kwigibo · 01-26-2002, 02:13 AM

hey scrutinizer,

BOO!!!!

Scrutinizer · 01-26-2002, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seeker196:
Of course no Christian will admit it. That would ruin the fantasy they must cling to.

Why do I get reminded of the ever-despised Christian comment that "no atheist will admit that they really believe deep down that God exists" when you write that?

Quote:

But when the car starts to go off the cliff, or whatever, we quickly find that Christians are, in fact, just as terrified of death as anyone. In life-threatening situations you will hear the usual "O God I don't want to die, I'm so afraid, O God help me" etc. despite the fact that you would think a Christian would embrace a natural death.

I don't want to die because I like my life. I do believe that I'm going to heaven eventually, yes, but I've got an eternity to enjoy that.

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Scrutinizer ]

Scrutinizer · 01-26-2002, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kwigibo:
hey scrutinizer,

BOO!!!!

Okay, kwigibo, you got me there! I'm trembling with fear!

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

(Edited to put in the correct smiley! - Scrutinizer)

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Scrutinizer ]

kwigibo · 01-26-2002, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scrutinizer:


I don't want to die because I like my life. I do believe that I'm going to heaven eventually, yes, but I've got an eternity to enjoy that.

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Scrutinizer ]

if u like your life, i'm sure they could make arrangements in this supposed heaven place

southernhybrid · 01-26-2002, 03:07 AM

IMO, some Xians fear death, and some do not. Some atheists fear death and some do not. I don't think it has a thing to do with the religion or lack of it. It seems to be more a result of other factors. Maybe the way the parents or the culture influenced the person as he/she was growing up. Some people are just the worrying kind and will have lots of fears, especially of things they have no control over.

If we were really honest, we might discover that in many ways, theists and non-theists have a lot in common except for this one little thing. Some of us seem to need/enjoy believing in the supernatural and some of us find it just too silly.

Personally, I have no fear of death. Most people have a fear of suffering or becoming dependent, but very few seem to have a fear of death. At least that has been my observation, over the years, working as s nurse.

crocodile deathroll · 01-26-2002, 08:34 PM

It is because only one word.

Hell!

Pantera · 01-26-2002, 09:15 PM

This belongs in Misc Religion DIscussions. Off we go.

01-26-2002, 01:40 AM	#1
Seeker196 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 278	Why Are Christians So Full of Fear? It seems to my mind that intelligent Xians, the mentally normal, must be full of fear of their mortality. Why else are they so emotionally attached to their belief? But I believe that it is a fear founded in the noblest parts of human nature, which is why they are the majority. The fear is not so much for yourself, because if death is nothing then you won't even know about. If you die relatively peacefully then there probably won't be much of you around to do anything. People say death is a mystery, yet have we not all experienced death in unconsciousness, such things as general anesthesia? Why don't we ask the unconscious what death is like when they wake up? Still not very comforting, but better than an eternity of hell for most people. I think even heaven would be awful for me knowing that most people I know had been 'justly' condemned for eternity... What really scares good people is the death of others, especially loved ones and the innocent. Children can and do die awfully, and without 'purpose' at any time. The lost potential, the unfairness of it, tears at our hearts. The effect on the mothers and fathers and siblings is terrible. What sensitive soul would not say anything, do anything, or even believe anything in the face of such monumental suffering? Who wouldn't grasp at any remotely plausible straw in a sea of darkness? And yet we refuse to believe what we wish were true(life after death) without proof. (faith is believing something because you wish it were so). Most religions are about tossing us that mental lifering. So I can very much understand why someone would remain a Christian. It is more difficult to understand our situation. It is, in some ways, a grim situation. There is light, thank whatever, though. Beauty, truth, love, comfort exist for us to snatch at while we may. But we recognize that life is unfair and fleeting. That we are not a the center of a cosmic drama, but just an oddity, a MAN ON STREET in filmscript terms to the universe. How can mentally normal, sensitive people accept such a conclusion, no matter how logical? Are we just incredible short-sighted and provincial? I don't think so. I think the typical agnostic/atheist is maybe a little...harder? mentally tougher? Crazier? I think many of us do have 'faith' to some extent in technological progress, that one day we may be able to push back Death in some manner until we are ready for it...it's a progress that will hardly benefit anyone alive today, but it does give us a nice feeling that maybe all mankinds glorious imaginings won't just amount to the cosmic equivalent of a fart. I'd also like to think that ag/aths have a certain...veneration?! is that the word? A certain veration or love of truth. We love truth a lot, more than we love comfort, or security, or even life I think, on some level at least. We could delude ourselves. We could accept Pascal's wager and think "It's total BS, but what the heck...maybe the 0.000000000000000000000001 % chance....", but we don't because we love truth too much. Enough stroking of your collective ego for now!!

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01-26-2002, 02:11 AM	#3
Seeker196 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 278	Of course no Christian will admit it. That would ruin the fantasy they must cling to. But when the car starts to go off the cliff, or whatever, we quickly find that Christians are, in fact, just as terrified of death as anyone. In life-threatening situations you will hear the usual "O God I don't want to die, I'm so afraid, O God help me" etc. despite the fact that you would think a Christian would embrace a natural death. Only the very well brainwashed can totally shut of their brains and believe in this nonsense like the suicide bombers.

01-26-2002, 02:13 AM	#4
kwigibo Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia Posts: 5,814	hey scrutinizer, BOO!!!!

01-26-2002, 03:07 AM	#8
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	IMO, some Xians fear death, and some do not. Some atheists fear death and some do not. I don't think it has a thing to do with the religion or lack of it. It seems to be more a result of other factors. Maybe the way the parents or the culture influenced the person as he/she was growing up. Some people are just the worrying kind and will have lots of fears, especially of things they have no control over. If we were really honest, we might discover that in many ways, theists and non-theists have a lot in common except for this one little thing. Some of us seem to need/enjoy believing in the supernatural and some of us find it just too silly. Personally, I have no fear of death. Most people have a fear of suffering or becoming dependent, but very few seem to have a fear of death. At least that has been my observation, over the years, working as s nurse.

01-26-2002, 08:34 PM	#9
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	It is because only one word. Hell!

01-26-2002, 09:15 PM	#10
Pantera Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cambridge, England, but a Scot at heart Posts: 2,431	This belongs in Misc Religion DIscussions. Off we go.

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