Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tgamble · 04-12-2003, 07:16 AM

I know he wrote OOS but I was wondering if he submitted his works to any scientific journals. The reason I ask is that Socrates (theologyweb) is always bringing it up whenever someone points out the lack of efforts to do so of Dempski, Behe etc.

Thanks.

Godot · 04-12-2003, 07:29 AM

I don't think he did, but that would largely be because there wasn't anything contemporary that resembled a scientific journal as we know it. You should be able to find reproductions of his journals from the HMS Beagle though, if that's more to the point.

BTW, since when did a newfie ever worry about anything beyond screetch, cod, and the next pogey cheque anyways?

Secular Pinoy · 04-12-2003, 07:40 AM

Darwin's publications

pz · 04-12-2003, 08:57 AM

There was no mechanism in place for Darwin to publish papers as scientists do now. There was peer review, however: scientists' works were read at meetings of scientific societies, and abstracts or minutes of these meetings were published. They were relatively inaccessible to the public -- books and public lectures were the medium by which science was disseminated to the people -- and were also rather elitist.

The modern methods of publishing make it easier for some new nobody to get his or her work into a scientific journal.

Nic Tamzek · 04-12-2003, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Pinoy
Darwin's publications

Compiled by
John S Wilkins, MA

...of all people (the BBC obviously knows who knows their stuff).

The above list is mostly books, however, Darwin did publish a bunch of articles also:

Quote:

Listed here and most of the texts are now online

III.�LIST OF SCIENTIFIC PAPERS, INCLUDING A SELECTION OF LETTERS AND SHORT COMMUNICATIONS TO SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS.

Letters to Professor Henslow, read by him at the meeting of the Cambridge Philosophical Society, held November 16, 1835. 31 pages. 8vo. Privately printed for distribution among the members of the Society.

Geological Notes made during a survey of the East and West Coasts of South America in the years 1832, 1833, 1834, and 1835; with an account of a transverse section of the Cordilleras of the Andes between Valparaiso and Mendoza. [Read November 18, 1835.] Geology Society Proc. ii. 1838, pages 210-212.

Notes upon the Rhea Americana. Zoology Society Proc., Part v. 1837. pages 35-36.

'Remarks upon the habits of the genera Geospiza, Camarhynchus, Cactornis, and Certhidea of Gould', Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, (5) 10 May 1837, p. 49.

'Observations of proofs of recent elevation on the coast of Chili, made during the survey of His Majesty's ship Beagle, commanded by Capt. Fitzroy', Proceedings of the Geological Society of London, 2(48) 1837, pp. 446-449.

'A sketch of the Deposits containing extinct Mammalia in the neighbourhood of the Plata', Proceedings of the Geological Society of London, 2(51) 1837, pp. 542-544.

'On certain areas of elevation and subsidence in the Pacific and Indian oceans, as deduced from the study of Coral Formations', Proceedings of the Geological Society of London, 2(51) 1837, pp. 552-554.

'On the Formation of Mould', Proceedings of the Geological Society of London, 2(52) 1838, pp. 574-576.

'On the connexion of certain volcanic ph�nomena, and on the formation of mountain-chains and volcanos, as the effects of continental elevations', Proceedings of the Geological Society of London, 2(56) 1838, pp. 654-660.

Origin of saliferous deposits. Salt Lakes of Patagonia and La Plata. Geological Society Journal ii. (Part ii.), 1838, pages 127-128.

'Note on a Rock seen on an Iceberg in 61� South Latitude', The Journal of the Royal Geographical Society of London, 9, 1839, pp. 528-529.

Observations on the Parallel Roads of Glen Roy, and of other parts of Lochaber in Scotland, with an attempt to prove that they are of marine origin. Phil. Trans. 1839, pages 39-82.

'On the Connexion of certain Volcanic Phenomena in South America; and on the Formation of Mountain Chains and Volcanos, as the Effect of the same Power by which Continents are elevated.', Transactions of the Geological Society of London,(2)53, 1840, pp. 601-631.

'On the formation of mould', Transactions of the Geological Society of London, 5(3), 1840, pp. 505-509.

On a remarkable Bar of Sandstone off Pernambuco, on the Coast of Brazil. Phil. Mag. xix. 1841, pages 257-260.

'On the distribution of the erratic boulders and on the contemporaneous unstratified deposits of South America', Transactions of the Geological Society of London, (2)6(2) 1841, pp. 415-431.

Notes on the Effects produced by the Ancient Glaciers of Caernarvonshire, and on the Boulders transported by Floating Ice. London Philosophical Magazine volume xxi. page 180. 1842.

Remarks on the preceding paper, in a Letter from Charles Darwin, Esq., to Mr. Maclaren. Edinburgh New Philosophical Journal xxxiv. 1843, pages 47- 50. [The "preceding" paper is: "On Coral Islands and Reefs as described by Mr. Darwin. By Charles Maclaren, Esq., F.R.S.E."]

Darwin et al, 'Report of a committee appointed "to consider of the rules by which the nomenclature of zoology may be established on a uniform and permanent basis"', Report of the British Association for the Advancement of Science for 1842, 1843, pp. 105-121.

Observations on the Structure and Propagation of the genus Sagitta. Annals and Magazine of Natural History xiii. 1844, pages 1-6.

Brief descriptions of several Terrestrial Planariae, and of some remarkable Marine Species, with an Account of their Habits. Annals and Magazine of Natural History xiv. 1844, pages 241-251.

An account of the Fine Dust which often falls on Vessels in the Atlantic Ocean. Geological Society Journal ii. 1846, pages 26-30.

On the Geology of the Falkland Islands. Geological Society Journal ii. 1846, pages 267-274.

A review of Waterhouse's 'Natural History of the Mammalia.' [Not signed.] Annals and Magazine of Natural History 1847. Volume xix. page 53.

On the Transportal of Erratic Boulders from a lower to a higher level. Geological Society Journal iv. 1848, pages 315-323.

'On British Fossil Lepadid�', The Quarterly Journal of the Geological Society of London, 6, 1850, pp. 439-440.

Analogy of the Structure of some Volcanic Rocks with that of Glaciers. Edinburgh Royal Society Proc. ii. 1851, pages 17-18.

On the power of Icebergs to make rectilinear, uniformly-directed Grooves across a Submarine Undulatory Surface. Philosophical Magazine x. 1855, pages 96-98.

Vitality of Seeds. Gardeners' Chronicle, November 17, 1855, page 758.

On the action of Sea-water on the Germination of Seeds. [1856.] Linnean Society Journal i. 1857 ("Botany"), pages 130-140.

On the Agency of Bees in the Fertilisation of Papilionaceous Flowers. Gardeners' Chronicle, page 725, 1857.

On the Tendency of Species to form Varieties; and on the Perpetuation of Varieties and Species by Natural Means of Selection. By Charles Darwin, Esq., F.R.S., F.L.S., and F.G.S., and Alfred Wallace, Esq. [Read July 1st, 1858.] Journal of the Linnean Society 1859, volume iii. (Zoology), page 45.

Special titles of Charles Darwin's contributions to the foregoing:�

(i.) Extract from an unpublished work on Species by Charles Darwin Esq., consisting of a portion of a chapter entitled, "On the Variation of Organic Beings in a State of Nature; on the Natural Means of Selection; on the Comparison of Domestic Races and true Species." (ii.) Abstract of a Letter from C. Darwin, Esq., to Professor Asa Gray, of Boston U.S., dated September 5, 1857.

On the Agency of Bees in the Fertilisation of Papilionaceous Flowers, and on the Crossing of Kidney Beans. Gardeners' Chronicle, 1858, page 828 and Annals of Natural History 3rd series ii. 1858, pages 459-465.

Do the Tineina or other small Moths suck Flowers, and if so what Flowers? Entomological Weekly Intelligencer volume viii. 1860, page 103.

Note on the achenia of Pumilio Argyrolepis. Gardeners' Chronicle, January 5, 1861, page 4.

Fertilisation of Vincas. Gardeners' Chronicle, pages 552, 831, 832. 1861.

On the Two Forms, or Dimorphic Condition, in the species of Primula, and on their remarkable Sexual Relations. Linnean Society Journal vi. 1862 (Botany), pages 77-96.

On the Three remarkable Sexual Forms of Catasetum tridentatum, an Orchid in the possession of the Linnean Society. Linnean Society Journal vi. 1862 ("Botany"), pages 151-157.

On the thickness of the Pampean formation near Buenos Ayres. Geological Society Journal xix. 1863, pages 68-71.

On the so-called "Auditory-sac" of Cirripedes. Natural History Review, 1863, pages 115-116.

A review of Mr. Bates' paper on 'Mimetic Butterflies.' Natural History Review, 1863, page 221-4. [Not signed.]

On the existence of two forms, and on their reciprocal sexual relation, in several species of the genus Linum. Linnean Society Journal vii. 1864 (Botany), pages 69-83.

On the Sexual Relations of the Three Forms of Lythrum salicaria. [1864.] Linnean Society Journal viii. 1865 (Botany), pages 169-196.

On the Movement and Habits of Climbing Plants. [1865.] Linnean Society Journal ix. 1867 (Botany), pages 1-118.

Note on the Common Broom (Cytisus scoparius). [1866.] Linnean Society Journal ix. 1867 (Botany), page 358.

Notes on the Fertilization of Orchids. Annals and Magazine of Natural History, 4th series, iv. 1869, pages 141-159.

On the Character and Hybrid-like Nature of the Offspring from the Illegitimate Unions of Dimorphic and Trimorphic Plants. [1868.] Linnean Society Journal x. 1869 (Botany), pages 393-437.

On the Specific Difference between Primula veris, British Fl. (var. officinalis, of Linn.), P. vulgaris, British Fl. (var. acaulis, Linn.), and P. elatior, Jacq.; and on the Hybrid Nature of the common Oxlip. With Supplementary Remarks on naturally produced Hybrids in the genus Verbascum. [1868.] Linnean Society Journal x. 1869 (Botany), pages 437-454.

'Note on the Habits of the Pampas Woodpecker (Colaptes campestris)', Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London, 1870, pp. 705-706.

Fertilisation of Leschenaultia. Gardeners' Chronicle, page 1166, 1871.

The Fertilisation of Winter-flowering Plants. Nature, November 18, 1869, volume i. page 85.

Pangenesis. Nature, April 27, 1871, volume iii. page 502.

A new view of Darwinism. Nature, July 6, 1871, volume iv. page 180.

Bree on Darwinism. Nature, August 8, 1872, volume vi. page 279.

Inherited Instinct. Nature, February 13, 1873, volume vii. page 281.

Perception in the Lower Animals. Nature, March 13, 1873, volume vii. page 360.

Origin of certain instincts. Nature, April 3, 1873, volume vii. page 417.

Habits of Ants. Nature, July 24, 1873, volume viii. page 244.

On the Males and Complemental Males of Certain Cirripedes, and on Rudimentary Structures. Nature, September 25, 1873, volume viii. page 431.

Recent researches on Termites and Honey-bees. Nature, February 19, 1874, volume ix. page 308.

Fertilisation of the Fumariaceae. Nature, April 16, 1874, volume ix. page 460.

Flowers of the Primrose destroyed by Birds. Nature, April 23, 1874, volume ix. page 482; May 14, 1874, volume x. page 24.

Cherry Blossoms. Nature, May 11, 1876, volume xiv. page 28.

Sexual Selection in relation to Monkeys. Nature, November 2, 1876, volume xv. page 18. Reprinted as a supplement to the 'Descent of Man,' 1871.

Fritz M�ller on Flowers and Insects. Nature, November 29, 1877, volume xvii. page 78.

The Scarcity of Holly Berries and Bees. Gardeners' Chronicle, January 20, 1877, page 83.

Note on Fertilization of Plants. Gardeners' Chronicle, volume vii. page 246, 1877.

A biographical sketch of an infant. 'Mind,' No.7, July, 1877.

Transplantation of Shells. Nature, May 30, 1878, volume xviii. page 120.

Fritz M�ller on a Frog having Eggs on its back�on the abortion of the hairs on the legs of certain Caddis-Flies, etc. Nature, March 20, 1879, volume xix. page 462.

Rats and Water-Casks. Nature, March 27, 1879, volume xix. page 481.

Fertility of Hybrids from the common and Chinese Goose. Nature, January 1, 1880, volume xxi. page 207.

The Sexual Colours of certain Butterflies. Nature, January 8, 1880, volume xxi. page 237.

The Omori Shell Mounds. Nature, April 15, 1880, volume xxi. page 561.

Sir Wyville Thomson and Natural Selection. Nature, November 11, 1880, volume xxiii. page 32.

Black Sheep. Nature, December 30, 1880, volume xxiii. page 193.

Movements of Plants. Nature, March 3, 1881, volume xxiii. page 409.

The Movements of Leaves. Nature, April 28, 1881, volume xxiii. page 603.

Inheritance. Nature, July 21, 1881, volume xxiv. page 257.

Leaves injured at Night by Free Radiation. Nature, September 15, 1881, volume xxiv. page 459.

The Parasitic Habits of Molothrus. Nature, November 17, 1881, volume xxv. page 51.

On the Dispersal of Freshwater Bivalves. Nature, April 6, 1882, volume xxv. page 529.

The Action of Carbonate of Ammonia on the Roots of certain Plants. [Read March 16, 1882.] Linnean Society Journal (Botany), volume xix. 1882, pages 239-261.

The Action of Carbonate of Ammonia on Chlorophyll-bodies. [Read March 6, 1882.] Linnean Society Journal (Botany), volume xix. 1882, pages 262- 284.

On the modification of a Race of Syrian Street-Dogs by means of Sexual Selection. By W. Van Dyck. With a preliminary notice by Charles Darwin. [Read April 18, 1882.] Proceedings of the Zoological Society 1882, pages 367-370.

(books, letters, contributions to books elsewhere in the list. And they say that this list is incomplete and the full list is here:

Darwin correspondance project (looks like a list of references though)

Anyway, in conclusion:

Quote:

I know he wrote OOS but I was wondering if he submitted his works to any scientific journals. The reason I ask is that Socrates (theologyweb) is always bringing it up whenever someone points out the lack of efforts to do so of Dempski, Behe etc.

...Socrates is dumb. Even if you *left out* Darwin's books, he'd still have a respectable publishing record.

Frankly I don't know how he did it. No internet to distract him probably.

Dr.GH · 04-12-2003, 09:49 AM

As PZ has pointed out, the accepted methods of scientific communication in the 1700, and 1800s were letters to other scientists, presentation at scientifica societies (many which then published an annual collection of these papers for members), and the publication of books.

Darwin partisipated actively in all three forms of scientific publication available at the time.

The issue of "peer reviewed" publication is over done by opponents to creationism. The question really is can a creationist position be sustained under scientific criticism. It can not. By rejecting the publication of creationist topics in our science journals(the tiny number even submitted), we have given away some rhetorical advantages. Creationists claim they are persecuted which resonates with their followers, too few scientists are even aware of the sophistic, and fallacious arguments used by creationists, and the strong counter arguments to creationist's positions are not general knowledge inspite being based on a broad range of common scientific knowledge.

And the argument that people must stay within the tight confines of some degree program somewhere is also a poor one as it is merely a variation of the "argument from authority" ploy. To reject a position merely because the presenter lacks a degree, is tanamount to accepting a position merely because the presenter holds some degree.

Edited to add: Great list Nic. My thanks to you and especially John.

Boro Nut · 04-15-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble
Did Darwin publish scientific papers

I'm pretty sure he didn't, certainly not during his lifetime.

Boro Nut

RufusAtticus · 04-15-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr.GH
As PZ has pointed out, the accepted methods of scientific communication in the 1700, and 1800s were letters to other scientists, presentation at scientifica societies (many which then published an annual collection of these papers for members), and the publication of books.

Yeah next time that IDists use this argument to defend Dembinski et al., I'm going to argue that any doctor who uses thalidimide to treat pregnant women today should not have his medical licence removed since it was used 30 years ago.

Valentine Pontifex · 04-15-2003, 02:34 PM

I once while using the Science Citation Index looked up Darwin and there was of course a bunch of citations for Origin and other of his famous books. There was also a citation for a Nature article. Now this guy is getting his journal articles cited well over a century after his death.

Anyone have easy access to the online version?

Nic Tamzek · 04-15-2003, 08:15 PM

You mean the online Science Citation Index?

Well, I went to webofscience.com, clicked on "Science Citation Index Expanded (SCI-EXPANDED)--1945-present", and looked for works citing "Darwin C*" and I got:

Quote:

NOTICE
Your Cited Reference Lookup found more matches than allowed by the system. To refine your lookup, try adding additional terms and pressing Lookup, or reducing the range of years being searched. Or you can proceed and view the matches processed by pressing [show].

So I had to restrict my search a bit. Restricting it to the minimum timespan, just the last week, I got:

Code:

    Hits  Cited Author          Cited Work                Volume      Page      Year
   7   DARWIN C              ANN MAG NAT HIST 1            13         1      1944  
 196   DARWIN C              DESCENT MAN                                     1871
1980   DARWIN C              DESCENT MAN SELECTIO                            1871
 383   DARWIN C              EXPRESSION EMOTIONS                             1965
   1   DARWIN C              GRAMMERCY BOOKS                                 1859
1576   DARWIN C              ORIGIN SPECIES                                  1859
 907   DARWIN C              ORIGIN SPECIES MEANS                            1859
   1   DARWIN C              T GEOLOGICAL SOC LON           3       601      1840 
   4   DARWIN C              VARIATION ANIMALS PL                            1905
 152   DARWIN C              VARIATION ANIMALS PL                            1868
 162   DARWIN CG             P ROY SOC LOND A MAT         118       654      1928 
   1   DARWIN CR             ON ORIGIN SPECIES ME                            1859

04-12-2003, 07:16 AM	#1
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	Did Darwin publish scientific papers? I know he wrote OOS but I was wondering if he submitted his works to any scientific journals. The reason I ask is that Socrates (theologyweb) is always bringing it up whenever someone points out the lack of efforts to do so of Dempski, Behe etc. Thanks.

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04-12-2003, 07:29 AM	#2
Godot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,335	I don't think he did, but that would largely be because there wasn't anything contemporary that resembled a scientific journal as we know it. You should be able to find reproductions of his journals from the HMS Beagle though, if that's more to the point. BTW, since when did a newfie ever worry about anything beyond screetch, cod, and the next pogey cheque anyways?

04-12-2003, 07:40 AM	#3
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Darwin's publications

04-12-2003, 08:57 AM	#4
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	There was no mechanism in place for Darwin to publish papers as scientists do now. There was peer review, however: scientists' works were read at meetings of scientific societies, and abstracts or minutes of these meetings were published. They were relatively inaccessible to the public -- books and public lectures were the medium by which science was disseminated to the people -- and were also rather elitist. The modern methods of publishing make it easier for some new nobody to get his or her work into a scientific journal.

04-12-2003, 09:49 AM	#6
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	As PZ has pointed out, the accepted methods of scientific communication in the 1700, and 1800s were letters to other scientists, presentation at scientifica societies (many which then published an annual collection of these papers for members), and the publication of books. Darwin partisipated actively in all three forms of scientific publication available at the time. The issue of "peer reviewed" publication is over done by opponents to creationism. The question really is can a creationist position be sustained under scientific criticism. It can not. By rejecting the publication of creationist topics in our science journals(the tiny number even submitted), we have given away some rhetorical advantages. Creationists claim they are persecuted which resonates with their followers, too few scientists are even aware of the sophistic, and fallacious arguments used by creationists, and the strong counter arguments to creationist's positions are not general knowledge inspite being based on a broad range of common scientific knowledge. And the argument that people must stay within the tight confines of some degree program somewhere is also a poor one as it is merely a variation of the "argument from authority" ploy. To reject a position merely because the presenter lacks a degree, is tanamount to accepting a position merely because the presenter holds some degree. Edited to add: Great list Nic. My thanks to you and especially John.

04-15-2003, 02:34 PM	#9
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	I once while using the Science Citation Index looked up Darwin and there was of course a bunch of citations for Origin and other of his famous books. There was also a citation for a Nature article. Now this guy is getting his journal articles cited well over a century after his death. Anyone have easy access to the online version?

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