Peter Edward Faulkner

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Peter Edward Faulkner ]</p>

Mageth

Peter Faulkner:

Read <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/bible.html" target="_blank">Infidels 1:1</a>.

Aerik Von

Wow...a very well reaserched bit of wriitng...I am impressed...not with bible repeating though.

Hell...as Gene Simmons said (he was a Theology major...) "An idiot qouting the bible is still that - an idiot".

CALDONIA

If one believes, "Vengeance is Mine, saith the Lord," from where comes this Xtian belief, delight, and approval of the damnation of others before the fact?

Pookmaster

Peter Faulkner,
Anybody can use the bible to try and rationalise or justify anything - it's been done to death (no pun intended).
Do you have any original thoughts of your own on this matter, beyond the mere regurgitation of ancient "gospel" scripts?
While you're thinking about it, here's another puzzler for the Xtians out there in fantasy land: when noah built the ark, why did he summon 2 of every species when some species are asexual, and would thus only require one of each in order to reproduce?
See if you can come up with a bible passage to explain that one - or better yet, some of your own ideas...

Amos

As a matter of fact Pookmaster. He took one of each, as in: there is one, and another, and another, and another, and so on, because the function of counting to two is a rational act and the ark building was not.

[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Bill Snedden

Of what?

Of being human? Of being born?

Of what is it exactly that we are supposed to be guilty?

Regards,

Bill Snedden

Vesica

Peter Edward Faulkner - I re-read your earlier posts with your clarification in mind and I am still not getting much out of them. I mean the bit about 'whatever a man sows, so shall he reap'; I was saying no forgiveness can erase the consequences. I do not see how what you said contradicts that.....Just wanted you to know I have re-read your posts carefully but I am still not following enought to reply to them.

I see your point, however, regaurdless of the flaws in the underlying motivation...It is a bad thing if one lives life trying to show love and kindness to fellow humans? It would be stupid for them to try to ease some of that suffering? I am not trying to attack your post anymore than I was trying to defend the whole of Christian tradition in mine; I am just asking 'Are the physical actions and characteristics associated with embracing the idea of Christ AND the command to love bad things? Should the people that have stop?'

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Vesica ]</p>

Radcliffe Emerson

Hey Bill, I'm about 2/3 of the way through Atlas Shrugged, great quote!
And my understanding of the principles of Secular Humanism is we love and respect each other too, and try to help those less fortunate, but because we're all human beings on the same boat together, not because big daddy's watching in the invisible sky.
I feel sorry for people who only feel the need to reach out and help others because they've been taught to do that through religious myths.
And Vesica, religious beliefs are the beliefs that are flawed, not secular beliefs.
All religions say they're the only right one. None of them carry any more weight than any other. It's all conceived and written down my humans, based on their limited understanding of the world at the time.
I fail to see why Jesus is so great. He treated his own mother with disrespect, he taught that you should hate your own parents and your family in his name, that you should beat your servants if they disobey, everyone, no matter how decent and kind they are, who doesn't blindly believe in him will be eternally damned, he was supposedly the son of the OT God that slaughtered people by the thousands because the Jews were supposed to take their land? (Ancient documents from Egypt found during that time period completely discount all of that bunk, by the way). Those are the beliefs that are flawed, to the point of absurdity in my opinion.
Have you ever wondered or asked an orthodox Jew why they never accepted Jesus as the messiah?
Because the principles and attributes given to Jesus are NOT even Jewish!
The Jews have never believed in eternal damnation, and their messiah myth is two messiahs at the same time, bringing world peace the FIRST time they arrive (obviously hasn't happened) and they are NOT divine, just ordinary humans, albeit wiser than most. Their afterlife belief is, IF there is an afterlife, it's universal, not conditional.
I'm sure you'll have the usual "God changed the plan, they rejected Jesus, etc" responses.

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Radcliffe Emerson ]</p>

Vesica

The big daddy watching was not the motivation I was talking about in my post. I was simply asking if it is bad for me to care about my fellow humans because I believe them all to be unique creations who are loved as much as I am by the divine??

And while you have every right to pity those who only help/give because they have been taught to by religion...Should they stop?

All religions say they're the only right one.

Well yes, so then it follows that all the 'believers' feel that way too?? All organized religions have issues...This much is clear. Relgions are only powerful if thier followers chose to let someone else do all thier thinking for them. Which leads me right back to secular issues...The modern world and American society does not seem to real concerned with thinking for one's self or taking any kind of responsibility for one's own actions...Is it really surprising that these themes are evident in religion now too??

My own research indicates that this 'I can do whatever' mentality is a modern one. To me, it makes sense to look to social influence for the explanation of why this is being preached....As always, some will say what people want to hear.