Carrie

(Deut. 22:13-21) If a woman got married and her husband accused her of not being a virgin, her family had to prove that she was. And the way they had to prove it: The father had to stick his fingers in his daughter’s vagina and show a rag with the blood on it to the elders! If there was no blood, she was not proven to be a virgin, so she was to be STONED TO DEATH!

Well, any gynecologist will tell you that there is no “proof” of virginity! Sometimes, even if it's the first time having sex, a girl won't bleed (I didn't). You may have heard the term "popped her cherry." Well, the hymen (cherry) can break by riding a horse,
or by walking on top of a fence and falling down so you get hit between the legs, or it can break in many other ways. What if a girl’s hymen was broken because she was molested as a child (we all know how common molestation is), or maybe the girl had
been raped previously and no one ever found out about it? So kill the girl if there’s no proof of virginity?! What the hell!?

Now God supposedly gave this law to Moses, so it wasn't Moses' idea. Deut. 5:27 says that after the Israelites heard the 10 commandments, they didn't want to hear anymore of God's voice, so they told Moses to get the rest of the law from God and just repeat back to them what God said. (Hmmm, very interesting).

Now you Christians, don't go telling me that God could ensure that no girl was unjustly punished. You might believe that, but there's no proof. God shouldn't have made a silly law like that in the first place. And why would women have to be virgins before
marriage? A man could sleep with a girl and THEN make her his wife, and then he could have many wives and have sex with all of them.

Maybe someone can come up with a rationalization about how there can be PROOF of virginity, if they are some kind of expert on the female crotch.

Any good rationalization ideas out there?

Bathrone

Moses was an interesting man according to the OT. Effective in murder. Effective in theft. Effective in identifying ways to "legitimatly" probe his daughters under God.

You will find many elements of the OT to be sexist and overly negative towards women.

I think if you are serious about your question, you should ask a professional Gynocolgist about it.

The buybull doesnt know shit from clay, its an ancient superstition with which to fulfull emotional need.

It would seem the sport of stoning to death is popular within the OT. I might be persuaded to have a go.......Hmm wonder how many cones Ill have to smoke before I die Hey maybe thats how you have a divine revelation too. :notworthy

malookiemaloo

As A Christian I do find passages like this difficult to comprehend.

I say this only as an aside. The law would give a degree of protection to woman which other societies and cultures did not have. See also the murder/accidental death. An eye for an eye (much misunderstood) was a trememdous advance for the times. Israel's justice system (although strange by our western standards)was vastly superior to the surrounding nations .

Not much of an answer, I know and it raises more questions but it's the best I can do!


malookiemaloo

Carrie

Although Israel may have been advanced compared to the cultures around them, God has been around forever, so he should have been advanced enough to give his people better laws. That's what I think about that. It was this scripture about proving virginity that really did the Bible in for me. I determined that the Bible could not possibly be from God if something like that was in it.

Bathrone

The bible was written by mankind.

The OT in particular is a primitive and savage look at the world, and indeed it presents a disturbing picture of a God.

Here is one of the most reasoned bit of writing Ive ever seen a human come up with, and apologies for having lost the soource of this wisdom;

"My reasons for not believing in the Christian god are more specific, but are primarily because the stories the books of the Bible tell about him/her/it and the qualities they attribute to this deity contradict each other. The "problem of evil" is a problem, but is actually quite minor compared to the rest. Among these are a benevolent and just God that allows souls to suffer eternally (the Catholic Church apparently found this so disturbing that it
invented Purgatory); the contradiction between the concepts of free will and an omniscient creator; and an omnipotent and omniscient who is not responsible for the results of of his/her/its creation--e.g., a deity that would create humans to be fallible, then punish them for failing.

Or to look at it another way: if a benevolent God exists, and wants me to believe in it, then why don't I? If the stakes are so high--the eternal damnation of my soul--and if this God is also omniscient, then he/she/it knows exactly what it would take to save me, and also knows whether or not that will ever happen. Yet sits back and does nothing. This simply doesn't make sense. I have to conclude either that this God doesn't exist, doesn't
want me to be saved, or doesn't care whether I am saved."

braces_for_impact

Actuallym, no. Israel was not advanced beyond their neigbors. Some perhaps, but certainly not all, either technologically nor socially.

All of the ten commandments can be found in the Code of Hammurabi, as well as many other of the "enlightened" laws in the OT. The Code predates the OT 10 commandments by a noteable period of time.

However, this does not solve the problem in any case. A perfect benevolent god would have passed down the proper morality to his subjects. I have often heard that this could not be the case because man was primitive, etc. Ignoring for the moment that an omniscient god should know better, we do not see a definite progression of morality as man grows. Not with the Israelites, and not with anyone else. That notwithstanding, even if we somehow allowed god to "evolve" morality through human beings, there are obviously better ways to handle the situation. For instance, some of these laws and customs are downright harmful to people, some are unnecessary, and some are downright cruel to innocents whether human or animal.

doc58

Hey Carrie,
The passage you refer to is one of my favorites to show that the Bible is not inerrant. That passage could not possibly have been
written by an omniscient God.

Check out Deut 22:28, where God says that if a man rapes an unengaged women he gets to marry her. A dream for sexual predators.

Also, in the O.T., God said people with congenital defects or physical disabilities can't go to church(synagogue).

Slavik91

I'm going to have to ask where you found that.

Jeremy Pallant

I think he's referring to Deuteronomy 23: 1 - 3.

Deu 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Deu 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

In other words, certain physical imperfections, circumstances of birth and race are sufficient to ban some people from "entering into the congregation of the LORD".

doc58

I was also thinking of Lev. 21
17"Tell Aaron that in all future generations, his descendants who have physical defects will not qualify to offer food to their God. 18No one who has a defect may come near to me, whether he is blind or lame, stunted or deformed, 19or has a broken foot or hand, 20or has a humped back or is a dwarf, or has a defective eye, or has oozing sores or scabs on his skin, or has damaged testicles. 21Even though he is a descendant of Aaron, his physical defects disqualify him from presenting offerings to the LORD by fire.

(I hate those damaged testicles)