christ-on-a-stick

As many of my other topics have been, this one is directed to those theists who believe in both the concepts of:

A) Exclusive salvation - only through Christ and
B) A literal hell

That being said, my question is as follows:

Do you believe that the Jews who perished in the Holocaust (who denied that Jesus was the Messiah) went straight from the ovens to the eternal pit of hell? (or from whatever cause of death straight to the eternal pit of hell)?

I have more thoughts on this but I'd be interested in some yes/no + reasons why answers for the moment, and we can go from there!

Lauri

themistocles

Which begs the question of where Hitler and co. went for "slaying the infidel"? The absurdities don't stop.

happyboy

of COURSE they went to hell! they didn't have Christ, so God condemned them to eternal torment. the hell they went through in places like auswitz was but a prelude to the pain and suffering they're going through right now as i type this.

remember this the next time some fundie tries to tell you God is a Deity of boundless love.

Ice

I believe many of them try to work around this apparent dilemma saying:

1) There is a Final Judgement;
2) God knows their hearts better than they know theirs;
3) We don't know God's methods and don't fully understand his motives

among others, to argue that some of them will be raised to Heaven.

Of course, there are those for whom those Jews would have the fires of hell for company.

christ-on-a-stick

Hi Ice,

You're right, I have heard that line of reasoning used to "wiggle out" of the dilemma before. However, when I have then argued that then agnostics and atheists who have truly searched and come up empty but lived good lives will also be eligible for heaven, their "trap door" shuts with a bang.

Curious...

emotional

Apparently the Christian God, in order to be just, must punish people eternally for the smallest of sins; and in order to be merciful, lets them off the hook if they choose Jesus. So that people who comitted the greatest of crimes against humanity but believe in Jesus are rewarded heaven instead of being handed to justice, and people who lived virtuously and lovingly are sent to eternal hell instead of enjoying God's mercy.

So God, in His attempt to be both just and merciful, ends up being neither.

beastmaster

Lauri, I don't know much about Xnty, but I think the answer may be in Christ's parable of the rich man and the leper Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) -- Jews get to go to Heaven, even if they don't believe in Christ, as long as they have miserable, wretched lives (like lepers). ["Gee, thanks God!"] Of course, rich Jews go to Hell, unless they repent. So I would think some Xns would conclude that Jewish Holocaust victims get to go to Heaven even without accepting Christ as their savior.

Ice

c-o-a-s,

Their minds are shut to anything that tries to belittle their God. I'm an agnostic myself, try to, as far as I can/want to, live my life for others, but without God, to them it's meaningless...

Harumi

ROFL!

:notworthy :notworthy

notMichaelJackson

As a liberal Christian, I do not believe in the classic "fire and brimestone" hell. Hell is simply the return the non-existance, which can be avoided because of Jesus Christ and his Resurrection. So no, I don't think the Holocaust victims will suffer eternally in hell, although many fundamentalists might make this claim.

Fundamentalist Christians say that only those who believe in Jesus Christ will be able to enter heaven, but as Theodore Drange explains in his "Arguement from Non-Belief," this cannot be entirely true. The statement "none shall enter the kingdom except through me" could also mean that people can enter only because of Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection, and one does not necessarily have to belief to be "saved."

That was my attempt to answer your question, CoaS. If you want to answer anything else just ask.