Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ybnormal · 12-17-2002, 11:39 AM

Can anyone alive & conscious now doubt what "the Church"'s priorities really are?

How many years ago did Donahue's extremely popular and widely-viewed old show go off the air? I have always remembered one in particular, probably back in the mid to late Eighties, based on a pedo-priest related book with its author as the guest. He had already documented hundreds, if not thousands of pedo priest abuse cases that had been "settled" outside the justice system. He could only estimate the dollars involved, because in each and every case, the entire agreement was based on conditions of absolute parental secrecy of the details. He put the figure back then, at half a billion dollars to buy all the families' silence. He further related the in-place practice of simply moving the priests to a fresh and innocent smorgasbord of boys.

Point being that no catholic, or no xian for that matter, has a right to be surprised to hear it again 20 years later, only to pretend being shocked. Just another example I draw from when I repeat my, "A christian is a xian is a xn." I have no qualms holding any and all xians who refused disgust and declined the risk of a whistleblower label, by speaking out publicly 20 years ago.

I personally refuse to condone and foster a xian's sneaky escape from personal moral and legal responsibility, while they simultaneously pay their own xian leaders to publicly target and denigrate other groups of true innocents.

"The Church's priorities" then, as now, are nothing but in protecting their "perceived goodness"... in order to protect the money machine, which became more necessary with each passing day and with each passing "settled", read "silenced" little boy or girl.

This one example represents the whole of the phony and destructive xian experience, and should serve the purpose of our truly understanding those xians who come here and distance themselves from personal disgrace, with a few keystrokes of, "those are not real or true xians".

Well then, will some true xian here please point me to any other self-identified group in the world, where its entire leadership, thru transgressions of complicity, is NOT considered "true" members of the group that they lead and are paid to represent?

There is NO WAY that every single catholic church representative, from the pope on down, did NOT know exactly what was going on for decades, at the emotional expense of their own innocent children.

I further suggest that there is NO legitimate reason for any xian to claim some lack of knowledge either. I knew of it openly and publicly, 20 years ago (actually prior to that even). So at best, about all any xian can use as an excuse, is their own paid leadership, who condoned and fostered the physical and sexual abuse of their children, thru insidious and secret blood-money pacts between thousands of parents and many thousands of other adults.

Where is the real and true xian outrage?

TerriNPA · 12-25-2002, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Jeffrey Newman, whose firm represents about 200 alleged victims, said he believes the archdiocese remains sincere in its efforts to move toward a settlement of the more than 400 lawsuits filed over child-molesting priests.
A law firm advising the archdiocese has concluded that the church has at least $90 million available for a settlement, most of it through coverage provided by two insurance companies, Travelers and Kemper.

Where the hell do they get the $90 mil from?

Toto · 12-25-2002, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TerriNPA:
<strong>

Where the hell do they get the $90 mil from?

</strong>

I'm sure it's not from hell. Economics of religion: churches make money. People come to church services and give money, because they have been programmed from an early age to drop money in the collection plate. People die and leave money to the church in their will to maybe increase their chances of going to heaven. People make money in various un-godly ways, and purge the money of taint by giving some to the church. Fundraisers for the church make a profession of raising money from rich parishioners and friendly foundations. They money that goes to the church is deducted from your income before your figure your taxes, if you itemize.

The Catholic Church used to sell indulgences, but that is frowned on today.

Since people have been giving money to churches for centuries, there is a mass of wealth concentrated in churches, which is not taxed.

What does the church do with this money? Does it support the poor or good works? Rarely - it gets government grants to do most of its charity work. With its own money, it buys real estate, supports its staff, and it buys the services of financial planners, some of whom must have suggested at some point that the church protect its assets with the appropriate liability polices for negligence or malpractice.

So Travelers and Kemper Insurance Companies have been collecting premiums from churches for years to cover this sort of liability - I imagine that it does not cover the individual pedophile priests, but does cover claims of failure to supervise the priests. They have set up reserve funds to cover the legal liability. They are probably not going to be selling more of these policies.

Why can't secularists raise money like this? We can't market heaven or hell, I guess. My disgust is unbounded.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/24/national/24BOST.html" target="_blank">Boston Archdiocese Asks for Dismissal of All Suits</a>

Quote:

The First Amendment, the archdiocese said, does not permit courts to tell churches how to conduct their internal affairs, including the questions of where to assign priests and how to discipline them.

Bishop Richard G. Lennon, the archdiocese's interim leader, said the motion to dismiss the suits, which number more than 400, did not indicate a change in his commitment to trying to settle them. Rather, he said, the move was driven by the archdiocese's insurers and by a motion-filing deadline set by Judge Constance M. Sweeney of Suffolk Superior Court, who is hearing the cases.

. . .

Legal experts said that the First Amendment approach had little chance of success but that the archdiocese might well have jeopardized its insurance coverage had it failed to pursue any available arguments.

. . .

A number of courts around the country have held the church immune from suit for the negligent hiring and supervision of priests who engage in sexual abuse. In 1997, for instance, the Wisconsin Supreme Court rejected a claim that the church had negligently supervised a hospital chaplain who was accused of sexually assaulting a woman. The court said it could not decide the case without interpreting ecclesiastical law, particularly the vow of celibacy. That, it held, would "excessively entangle the court in religious affairs, contrary to the First Amendment."

The majority of courts, though, have taken the opposite view. In March, the Florida Supreme Court held that "the First Amendment does not provide a shield behind which a church" may hide when accusations of sexual abuse are made.

In Massachusetts, the courts have tried to distinguish between matters of doctrine and harmful conduct. . . .

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12-17-2002, 11:39 AM	#11
ybnormal Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 430	Can anyone alive & conscious now doubt what "the Church"'s priorities really are? How many years ago did Donahue's extremely popular and widely-viewed old show go off the air? I have always remembered one in particular, probably back in the mid to late Eighties, based on a pedo-priest related book with its author as the guest. He had already documented hundreds, if not thousands of pedo priest abuse cases that had been "settled" outside the justice system. He could only estimate the dollars involved, because in each and every case, the entire agreement was based on conditions of absolute parental secrecy of the details. He put the figure back then, at half a billion dollars to buy all the families' silence. He further related the in-place practice of simply moving the priests to a fresh and innocent smorgasbord of boys. Point being that no catholic, or no xian for that matter, has a right to be surprised to hear it again 20 years later, only to pretend being shocked. Just another example I draw from when I repeat my, "A christian is a xian is a xn." I have no qualms holding any and all xians who refused disgust and declined the risk of a whistleblower label, by speaking out publicly 20 years ago. I personally refuse to condone and foster a xian's sneaky escape from personal moral and legal responsibility, while they simultaneously pay their own xian leaders to publicly target and denigrate other groups of true innocents. "The Church's priorities" then, as now, are nothing but in protecting their "perceived goodness"... in order to protect the money machine, which became more necessary with each passing day and with each passing "settled", read "silenced" little boy or girl. This one example represents the whole of the phony and destructive xian experience, and should serve the purpose of our truly understanding those xians who come here and distance themselves from personal disgrace, with a few keystrokes of, "those are not real or true xians". Well then, will some true xian here please point me to any other self-identified group in the world, where its entire leadership, thru transgressions of complicity, is NOT considered "true" members of the group that they lead and are paid to represent? There is NO WAY that every single catholic church representative, from the pope on down, did NOT know exactly what was going on for decades, at the emotional expense of their own innocent children. I further suggest that there is NO legitimate reason for any xian to claim some lack of knowledge either. I knew of it openly and publicly, 20 years ago (actually prior to that even). So at best, about all any xian can use as an excuse, is their own paid leadership, who condoned and fostered the physical and sexual abuse of their children, thru insidious and secret blood-money pacts between thousands of parents and many thousands of other adults. Where is the real and true xian outrage?

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