Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sephiroth · 06-27-2002, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kind Bud:


As if no Xian has ever said anything remotely as combative and confrontational as anything O'Hair ever said.

Uh-huh.

Don't worry, I'm on what could be called an anti-Christian kick right now after seeing Faux News, the Democrats, and CNN kiss the Religious Reich's collective ass (I knew the 'pubs would). But the bad PR isn't going to help us any and it could take much longer now to take god off currency and money.

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Sephiroth ]

uhcord · 06-27-2002, 08:58 AM

Had a 1 hour arguement in my summer school English 12 class today. (taking it for the first time, so no I didn't fail

)

I managed to get all the students to understand and agree with the ruling, but the teacher would not budge. She was constantly saying, "It is just some atheist nut trying to be a pain in the butt." (exact words) <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> She must be too brainwashed. Thank goodness I was able to get through to my classmates though.

Was hoping not to state my atheism so soon (only the 4th day) but I had to come to the rescue.

David Bowden · 06-27-2002, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tommyc:
The poll conducted on the BBC news website currently stands at 61% for a change in the pledge, and 39% against. Good luck America, I hope that any appeals fail.

Uh, oh; the Brits are slipping.

Quote:

the latest from BBC:
VOTE RESULTS
Should the Pledge be changed?
Yes
50.00%
No
50.00%
86 Votes Cast

Not exactly a huge amount of feedback on this question, so far. Here's their poll:

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_2068000/2068737.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_2068000/2068737.stm</a>

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: wide-eyed wanderer ]

queue · 06-27-2002, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by vonmeth:

Quote:

I managed to get all the students to understand and agree with the ruling, but the teacher would not budge. She was constantly saying, "It is just some atheist nut trying to be a pain in the butt." (exact words) She must be too brainwashed. Thank goodness I was able to get through to my classmates though.

Since you seem to have done a great job with your fellow students, do you think that you could do the same thing for our legislators?

bluefugue · 06-27-2002, 09:11 AM

Quote:

She was constantly saying, "It is just some atheist nut trying to be a pain in the butt."

Uh oh, the atheists are getting uppity again. Haven't they learned their place yet?

jdawg2 · 06-27-2002, 09:20 AM

my views on the issue...sent to the fox news feedback section:

Quote:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

...and in 1954, Congress passed a law which added the words "Under God", a being who is worshipped under a system of beliefs called a religion, to the pledge of allegiance.

Now, can someone tell me why it's so hard for people to understand the court's decision?

It seems logical enough, then again, people tend to think with their emotions rather than logic when it comes to religious matters.

What would be interesting is if the courts ask someone to prove the existence of God if they, in fact, want to add the words "under God", back to the pledge.

That would be fun to watch

pepperlandgirl · 06-27-2002, 09:27 AM

I'm sending the following letter to the Pres, Vice-Pres, and all 100 senators.

Quote:

Dear ,
I am an atheist and an American citizen. I am a proud American citizen, and I love this country very much. The thing I love most about this country, the thing I’m most proud of, and thing that means the most to me is the United States Constitution.
The Constitution would not have been ratified without the Bill of Rights attached. The Bill or Rights were so important to many of the drafters because they protected the rights of the minority. The beautiful thing about the United States of America is that it is ruled by the majority, but not at the expense of the minority.
Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson wrote in his decision in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) “The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts.” The Bill of Rights was put into place to protect the minority from the majority, but also insure that all American Citizens were accorded the same rights and responsibilities.
The First Amendment states that CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. This means that the Government cannot tell me who or what to worship. The Supreme Court of the United States has long held that this also means that the United States Government much remain neutral regarding religions, and must not favor one or any religions above the other.
This brings me to the current decision by the 9th Circuit Court that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional. As an atheist, I cannot take this pledge. I cannot affirm my love or allegiance to this great nation. I could not when I was in school, and I cannot now. I cannot because the Pledge of Allegiance affirms that this is, indeed, a country under God. As someone who does not believe in God, this implies that I am not welcome, nor am I real American citizen because I do not agree with the nation-wide affirmation that God exists.
This is not a matter of atheist, agnostic, pagan, pantheist, Buddhist, Hindu, or other non-Christian, non-Jewish citizens trying to take over the country. This is not a matter of over-zealous political correctness, and this is not a matter of feeling “left out”. Non-Christians are the minority in the United States, and as such, deserve the full protection of the Bill of Rights. We vote, we pay taxes, and we fight for this country. And yet, according to the words of United States Pledge of Allegiance, we are not part of the one country, “Under God”.
This decision is based on the minority rights, which is the whole reason the Bill of Rights exist. Please do not let your own personal religious convictions blind you to the fact that there are millions of Americans who do not believe that is country is one country under God, and that we have the same rights and privileges to be part of this country as our Christian peers.

Respectfully
(pepperlandgirl)

It's probably not the greatest letter, but it says what I want to say, and I doubt very much that they will care anyway.

Godless Dave · 06-27-2002, 09:31 AM

Just to let off some steam I sent this email to President Shrub:

Quote:

Dear Mr. President:

I heard your comments yesterday and today about the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling on the 1954 law inserting "under God" into our Pledge of Allegiance. I am sorry but not surprised that the President of this great nation doesn't understand the very Constitution he is supposed to uphold and defend. If you spent more time talking to constitutional lawyers and less time listening to the crazy religious fanatics who control your party maybe you would understand the issue. Or maybe like your father you don't think non-religious Americans should be considered citizens. Well I've got news for you, pal. I'm an atheist, I'm a citizen, I'm a patriot, I vote, and you can bet your Enron bribes I'm going to do everything in my power to get you and your superstitious, hateful ilk out of our nation's government.

Sincerely,

N- D- T-
Saint Paul, Minnesota

PS you might want to give this a read:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Godless Dave ]

Dark Jedi · 06-27-2002, 09:33 AM

Didn't see this anywhere, so I thought I'd add it:

Quote:

President Bush found the ruling ``ridiculous,'' and added Thursday that it was ``out of step with the traditions and history of America'' as he promised to appoint ``commonsense judges who understand that our rights were derived from God.''

From <a href="http://wire.ap.org/?SLUG=PLEDGE%2dOF%2dALLEGIANCE" target="_blank">the Associated Press wire.</a>

Looks like Dubya had to wait for Pat Robertson to tell him how to react.

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Dark Jedi ]

gilly54 · 06-27-2002, 09:38 AM

I wish the most respected Constitutional scholars would end this brouha by simply stating that the 9th Circuit Court was correct in its ruling. This would save taxpayers a LOT of money, while forcing our grandstanding politicians to rethink their oaths to uphold the Constitution.

For those of you who haven't contacted your respresentatives yet, just type their name in the Search bar on your browser to find their websites,and SOUND OFF in an e-mail.

I started my letter to Dianne Feinstein, who called the ruling an "embarrassment", with 'Dear Senator Feinstein, I am a registered, CONTRIBUTING Democrat...

I also said that rather than being embarrassed, I was PROUD that some California judges are upholding the Constitution. I said that it was unfortunate that the 1954 addition of "under God" wasn't squelched back then. The framers had it right regarding church/state separation. Now look how adding that religious phrase has divided this "indivisable" country.

Gilly

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06-27-2002, 08:58 AM	#342
uhcord Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,158	Had a 1 hour arguement in my summer school English 12 class today. (taking it for the first time, so no I didn't fail ) I managed to get all the students to understand and agree with the ruling, but the teacher would not budge. She was constantly saying, "It is just some atheist nut trying to be a pain in the butt." (exact words) <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> She must be too brainwashed. Thank goodness I was able to get through to my classmates though. Was hoping not to state my atheism so soon (only the 4th day) but I had to come to the rescue.

06-27-2002, 09:38 AM	#350
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	I wish the most respected Constitutional scholars would end this brouha by simply stating that the 9th Circuit Court was correct in its ruling. This would save taxpayers a LOT of money, while forcing our grandstanding politicians to rethink their oaths to uphold the Constitution. For those of you who haven't contacted your respresentatives yet, just type their name in the Search bar on your browser to find their websites,and SOUND OFF in an e-mail. I started my letter to Dianne Feinstein, who called the ruling an "embarrassment", with 'Dear Senator Feinstein, I am a registered, CONTRIBUTING Democrat... I also said that rather than being embarrassed, I was PROUD that some California judges are upholding the Constitution. I said that it was unfortunate that the 1954 addition of "under God" wasn't squelched back then. The framers had it right regarding church/state separation. Now look how adding that religious phrase has divided this "indivisable" country. Gilly

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