winstonjen

Inspired by This thread.

It really saddens me. As far as I can tell, they spout all this nonsense and tripe of suffering being good for the soul in the afterlife, a 'nicer' Purgatory here on Earth, etc.

I think it's just because they can't find a way to stop the suffering, so they have to make people feel better about it. Unfortunately, this leads to religious groups condoning and even encouraging suffering. :boohoo:

Amie

Hi winstonjen
When I was younger I had a priest tell me that suffering "builds character and makes us closer to God". To this day I disagree with him because I certainly do not feel that one *needs* sufering in order to be close to God or have a better character.

I can only speak from my experiences when I say that I did grow through the bad times in my life, I also grew from the good. However there are so many people that suffer their entire lives and that is something that I have a hard time understanding in terms of my God belief...
It's really unfair.

suffering is terrible, I wish nobody had to endure it...

Corgan Sow

Personally I think, even if suffering is an test from God, I don't think there should be nonsense like "This dogma is the only way to allievate your suffering". I think that is why religion is so bunk these days because many manipulate that excuse to destroy people's lives.

If there is a God, it is doing benefits to imperfect beings that matter than pleasing a so-called Omnipotent being.

winstonjen

I agree. A theist with common sense who thinks for herself!

*claps*

I also can't understand why a 'just' god would punish people unequally. Some cruel pricks don't suffer on this earth, while some righteous people (theist and non-theist alike) get unjust punishment.

beyelzu

Many theist use the "suffering is needed" argument to get around the contradictions that suffering is for an omnimax god.

Gemma Therese

Since the inception and common use of drugs such as morphine, our culture has grown to view pain as something that must be avoided at all costs. This mentality has not always been the case. The value of suffering has been lost to us.

I challenge one to find a saint who did not suffer greatly during their life, whether physically, emotionally, or spiritually, and very often all three.

Suffering unites us with Christ. The value of pain is that we share in His Passion. We all have our crosses.

Gemma Therese

winstonjen

And that is somehow BAD? Suffering for its own sake is masochism. Glorifying it and even endorsing it is sick sadism!

Quote:

I challenge one to find a saint who did not suffer greatly during their life, whether physically, emotionally, or spiritually, and very often all three. Suffering unites us with Christ. The value of pain is that we share in His Passion. We all have our crosses. Gemma Therese

So? Does that mean we have to seek out suffering? Do we have to inflict it on others? Should we legalise assault and torture?

Demigawd

Suffering unites us with Christ. The value of pain is that we share in His Passion. We all have our crosses.

For some reason, these statements conjure in my mind the image of Jesus in spiked leather, holding a whip, and panting "who's your Daddy? Who's your Daddy?"

winstonjen

Heh. Religion does the strangest things to people.

Also, why do people suffer unequally? Isn't that the antithesis of a just god? Very few people 'get what they deserve'. How is that fair?

long winded fool

I don't think that Christian theology commands suffering, or even reveres it as of itself. I think Christians believe that, "It is better to suffer evil than to inflict evil." In this sense, the suffering isn't "bad" it's the inflicting of suffering on another that's bad. Nobody likes suffering, but suffering isn't evil in the Christian doctrine. Enduring suffering without retalitation is certainly an honorable thing. Attempting to eliminate personal suffering by hurting or threatening to hurt those you deem most likely to inflict it upon you would be evil. Attempting to eliminate universal suffering by never hurting anyone under any circumstances under the assumption that your behavior will influence others would be good. The ammount of suffering you endure simply shows how strongly you believe the golden rule. You could theoretically follow the golden rule just as closely without ever enduring suffering.

From the Christian standpoint, suffering is only evil for those who inflict it. If souls are immortal, it is far better to live a miserable, horrible life full of suffering and go to heaven than live a life devoid of personal suffering and go to hell. This has nothing to do with suffering, as it would be even better to live a life devoid of suffering and go to heaven. Suffering is has nothing to do with to the soul, but exists all the same. How much more courage does it take to turn the other cheek than to give back what you're dealt? Is it any wonder why those who suffer in silence are revered? Suffering would seem to be a test of courage. The suffering isn't what's good for the soul, courage in the face of adversity is what is good and what "builds character." I wish no one ever had any need for courage, if this was the case the children in that thread would have lived a happy childhood free from abuse, but since this is not the case, courage is held as a virtue and unfortunately can exist only alongside suffering. If those tortured children grow up to be kind-hearted parents who never hurt a fly, they will be examplars of the courage and love human beings are capable of. The value of suffering is merely the value of the chance to exercise our reasoning humanity instead of falling back into animal instincts. The value of suffering can never be lost or gained. Suffering is ever-present and technically not subject to moral value judgments. Suffering is absolutely valuable as a mechanism ensuring self-preservation. When we're not suffering, we're probably suriving. The value of courage, it could be argued, is what has been lost. Pain is neither bad nor good. It's simply how the body works. Courage and selflessness are the virtues that true Christians revere. (Or ought to revere if they follow the Bible.)