Freethought & Rationalism Archive

02-01-2002, 03:32 PM

Good for you Ivan and the Church does not claim to have the patent rights on successsful mariages. It must have been love in which you have something to offer to each other without there being major [incarnate] impediments to hinder this flow.

In a love affair the opposites attract (just like a magnet) which is perceived by the eye of the soul (or there would be no attraction), but is not rational (or love would not be blind). So love is non-rational (perceived by the soul) as opposed to rational/irrational (perceived by the faculty of reason). It is based on this that I hold that love is needed for two people to get married from which also follows that if it was not love it must have been flattery.

The assets we see in each other (opposites) become liabilities after we are married because that is where we differ from each other. They will always be ours, of course, but if they become liabilities there must be a way to redeem this and this is where the soul nature must be brought into the open (exposition of the Inner Sanctum). In Catholicism this is symbolized with the exposition of the body of Christ in the monstrance that was taken from the holy of holies of the tabernacle (from deep within the heart of man). It is interesting to watch this elaborate ceremony in the Russian Orthodox Church on Jan.6 or even in Judaism.
Thanks, Amos

sullster · 02-02-2002, 10:43 AM

Well, Amos, I utterly disagree that marriage is some transcendant state which is arranged by ghostly beings up in your never-never land in the sky. It seems like a marriage that women must endure in India or in midevil Europe. You must marry someone who fulfills some metaphysical goal determined by other-worldly beings,( who are known of course by the dear priest class).

The primary reasons for marriage are essentially biological. Women need help raising their offspring,(they always know who the mother is), and males need to know exactly who the father is,(males aren't always sure they are raising their biological offspring). Marriage provides for all these aspects. That religions have come on the scene and "sanctified" the marriages proves nothing about the truth of religion. It only supports the biological needs.
The biological needs for marriage are not needed for the long life spans we have now in the West and thus divorce is more prevalent. For your medevil church to not see this is a travesty.

The other reasons for marriage are the emotional needs of two people. This has nothing to do with your other-worldly nonsense and your snake priests with their spells of priestcraft.

The battle of reason and irrationality is always raging. The thing is, is that your religion constantly aids and helps irrationality. Your church is the cause of more human misery than can be computed.

IvanK · 02-04-2002, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>. . . love is non-rational (perceived by the soul) as opposed to rational/irrational (perceived by the faculty of reason).</strong>

Leaving aside the question of which organ perceives love, I hold that love is indeed rational and in fact a conscious decision rather than a feeling, a malady or an accident. At least it was for me; without a decision to love someone there is no real love. The possible consequences of there being a God who loves his creations, not because they are his creations or he wants them to love him, but because he chooses to do so, is something I'm still working out.

abe smith · 02-04-2002, 07:32 AM

Return to ^^^ earlier post here, about can Pope be removed from office? OF course the Pope [any Pope} can be removed from office; just as anyone else human can be ousted: = he can be murdered; and like all other possible papacy variations you could think of, that also has certainly occurred in that long 2K history. I can't cite chap/verse.... Maybe our good informant here-aloft will do that? Thx, goodd Informant.

02-04-2002, 12:01 PM

Sullster, all I told you was that if "Sacramental marriages are arranged in heaven they cannot fail" and you bring in "never-never-land" that does not exist. I told you that heaven is a state of mind that is within our reach and from which love is not blind but is non-rational. This means that heaven must be a state of mind and therefore does have a perspective that is ideal to select a mate with to further the kingdom of God. All others are fornicators and erode the beauty and splendor of the Church and soon the dominion of man on earth. I hope you realize by now, that in my view all they create will soon be a bunch of cross looking drones that leak like rust buckets to the point that even their arguments don't hold water. Yes, as I wrote before, it all started with the first "Divorce Office" that was needed to remove the impediments that were added to the Sacrament of Marriage.

What that actually means is that there is reality behind truth--or there would not be peace behind chaos--and it matters not one iota if you believe in it or not. We can just let the facts speak for themselves and watch the Western world destroy itself in the scientific light articulated by the age of reason in effort to give some explantion for our eratic behavior (chaos).

Amos

IvanK · 02-04-2002, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by abe smith:
<strong>OF course the Pope [any Pope} can be removed from office; just as anyone else human can be ousted: = he can be murdered . . .</strong>

Can't find any instances since 258 CE when the Roman emperor Valerian had Sixtus II murdered. Decius had murdered Fabian in 250. They're both saints now of course.

Queen of Swords · 02-04-2002, 02:25 PM

What about John Paul I?

bonduca · 02-04-2002, 02:46 PM

Ah, good one. This should be fun.

Queen of Swords · 02-04-2002, 03:01 PM

I don't know much about the possible assassination of JP II. I read In God's Name by David Yallop about ten years ago, and that book suggested that the Pope was murdered by insiders in the Vatican because he wasn't involved in their money-grubbing. As I recall, Yallop mentioned Paul Marcinkus, and it's been so long ago that I can't even remember what he did.

02-04-2002, 05:05 PM

On the alledged murder of Popes it would be wise to check out "The School of Divinity" because I am sure it is protestant theology.

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02-01-2002, 03:32 PM	#21
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Good for you Ivan and the Church does not claim to have the patent rights on successsful mariages. It must have been love in which you have something to offer to each other without there being major [incarnate] impediments to hinder this flow. In a love affair the opposites attract (just like a magnet) which is perceived by the eye of the soul (or there would be no attraction), but is not rational (or love would not be blind). So love is non-rational (perceived by the soul) as opposed to rational/irrational (perceived by the faculty of reason). It is based on this that I hold that love is needed for two people to get married from which also follows that if it was not love it must have been flattery. The assets we see in each other (opposites) become liabilities after we are married because that is where we differ from each other. They will always be ours, of course, but if they become liabilities there must be a way to redeem this and this is where the soul nature must be brought into the open (exposition of the Inner Sanctum). In Catholicism this is symbolized with the exposition of the body of Christ in the monstrance that was taken from the holy of holies of the tabernacle (from deep within the heart of man). It is interesting to watch this elaborate ceremony in the Russian Orthodox Church on Jan.6 or even in Judaism. Thanks, Amos

02-02-2002, 10:43 AM	#22
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	Well, Amos, I utterly disagree that marriage is some transcendant state which is arranged by ghostly beings up in your never-never land in the sky. It seems like a marriage that women must endure in India or in midevil Europe. You must marry someone who fulfills some metaphysical goal determined by other-worldly beings,( who are known of course by the dear priest class). The primary reasons for marriage are essentially biological. Women need help raising their offspring,(they always know who the mother is), and males need to know exactly who the father is,(males aren't always sure they are raising their biological offspring). Marriage provides for all these aspects. That religions have come on the scene and "sanctified" the marriages proves nothing about the truth of religion. It only supports the biological needs. The biological needs for marriage are not needed for the long life spans we have now in the West and thus divorce is more prevalent. For your medevil church to not see this is a travesty. The other reasons for marriage are the emotional needs of two people. This has nothing to do with your other-worldly nonsense and your snake priests with their spells of priestcraft. The battle of reason and irrationality is always raging. The thing is, is that your religion constantly aids and helps irrationality. Your church is the cause of more human misery than can be computed.

02-04-2002, 07:32 AM	#24
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Return to ^^^ earlier post here, about can Pope be removed from office? OF course the Pope [any Pope} can be removed from office; just as anyone else human can be ousted: = he can be murdered; and like all other possible papacy variations you could think of, that also has certainly occurred in that long 2K history. I can't cite chap/verse.... Maybe our good informant here-aloft will do that? Thx, goodd Informant.

02-04-2002, 12:01 PM	#25
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Sullster, all I told you was that if "Sacramental marriages are arranged in heaven they cannot fail" and you bring in "never-never-land" that does not exist. I told you that heaven is a state of mind that is within our reach and from which love is not blind but is non-rational. This means that heaven must be a state of mind and therefore does have a perspective that is ideal to select a mate with to further the kingdom of God. All others are fornicators and erode the beauty and splendor of the Church and soon the dominion of man on earth. I hope you realize by now, that in my view all they create will soon be a bunch of cross looking drones that leak like rust buckets to the point that even their arguments don't hold water. Yes, as I wrote before, it all started with the first "Divorce Office" that was needed to remove the impediments that were added to the Sacrament of Marriage. What that actually means is that there is reality behind truth--or there would not be peace behind chaos--and it matters not one iota if you believe in it or not. We can just let the facts speak for themselves and watch the Western world destroy itself in the scientific light articulated by the age of reason in effort to give some explantion for our eratic behavior (chaos). Amos

02-04-2002, 02:25 PM	#27
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	What about John Paul I?

02-04-2002, 02:46 PM	#28
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	Ah, good one. This should be fun.

02-04-2002, 03:01 PM	#29
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	I don't know much about the possible assassination of JP II. I read In God's Name by David Yallop about ten years ago, and that book suggested that the Pope was murdered by insiders in the Vatican because he wasn't involved in their money-grubbing. As I recall, Yallop mentioned Paul Marcinkus, and it's been so long ago that I can't even remember what he did.

02-04-2002, 05:05 PM	#30
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	On the alledged murder of Popes it would be wise to check out "The School of Divinity" because I am sure it is protestant theology.

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