Freethought & Rationalism Archive

crazyfingers · 01-29-2002, 11:35 AM

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/01/29/pope.divorce.Italy/index.html" target="_blank">Pope criticised for divorce appeal</a>

Quote:

VATICAN CITY, Italy -- Italians have taken Pope John Paul to task for strong comments against divorce seen by many as interference in state affairs.

Addressing magistrates on Monday, the Pope urged lawyers in Italy to shun divorce cases because, he said, marriage should be indissoluble and divine law superseded human law.

A poll on Tuesday by the Datamedia research group showed that 87.5 percent of those Italians interviewed disagreed with the Pope, the spiritual leader of about one billion Catholics around the world. Other polls fell into line.

What happens when too many people think that their "leader" is out to lunch?

Pantera · 01-29-2002, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyfingers:
<strong>Pope remains out of touch</strong>

In other news, bears continue to shit in the woods.

Countdown to Amos 5...4...3...2...1...

01-29-2002, 11:56 AM

So many things have happened to discredit the RC church in recent years: various sexual scandals, financial scandals and growing evidence of the Vatican's links with the Nazis and Fascists, that it is hardly surprising that people no longer want its authoritorian attitudes. Unfortunately, it looks as though the worst of catholicism is speedily being overshadowed by the worst of islamisation.

IvanK · 01-29-2002, 11:57 AM

If His Holiness truly thinks his opinion on divorce is going to sway non-Catholic lawyers or judges then he's really gone around the bend, poor fellow. Sadly, due to the whole infallibility thing and the consternation it would cause the Catholic Church to have an ex-Pope who might disagree with the pronouncements of a current Pope, he'll probably be in the chair until such time as he's unable to produce a coherent statement in any of the many languages he speaks.

daemon · 01-29-2002, 01:27 PM

First off, the Pope is Pope until he dies. If he starts going totally senile, he might be completely hushed up, but he'll technically still be the Pope...

Also, it should be noted that Papal infallability is only invoked when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, which is an amusingly political process in any case. If I recall correctly, there hasn't been an ex cathedra statement since the 60s or so, and it's not likely to be made unless the vast majority of Catholics agree.

sullster · 01-29-2002, 02:06 PM

What amazes me about the pope's view of divorce is that he considers it "evil", and lawyers and judges who work with divorce are themselves aiding "evil". I have no qualms about the pope's bashing of lawyers , they many times are two-faced relativists. My problem is with his evocation of the good old word "evil".

The word is bandied about too much and though I can agree to a large degree that the attack on the WTC by religious suicide pilots was "evil", I just can't see that it is an equivalent evil when two people want to end a failed marriage. It cheapens a word which has a powerful meaning.

I will tell you about the divorce which I think is evil. It is the divorce of the rulers of the catholic church from reality. The senile heirarchy of this patriarchial institution are quickening its downward spiral.

abe smith · 01-30-2002, 07:57 AM

Note that [contrary to ^^^ statement}, the POpe CAN resign == cease to be pope; one of the middle-way-back ones did that , afetr a very short reign; his name began w/ "C" , i think ; you could find it in an Almanac list. This here incumbent thinks he is put in un place by GOD; & has said he will stay in office until his Boss fires him.... Ever pray that siomeone wd die/ That;s no help! Guy said "seven other devils worse than the first; and as in so many others of his sentences, He was right about that too.

not a theist · 01-30-2002, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Note that [contrary to ^^^ statement}, the POpe CAN resign == cease to be pope; one of the middle-way-back ones did that , afetr a very short reign; his name began w/ "C"

<a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03479b.htm" target="_blank">Celestine V</a>

IvanK · 01-30-2002, 09:40 AM

I commend the above link to those curious about the mysterious ways in which the Lord of the Catholics seems to work. Apparently one can resign from the Papacy but one then has to be held captive, hunted down and closely guarded by one's successor.

daemon · 01-30-2002, 09:56 AM

Intriguing, I hadn't heard of him. I suppose I should amend my previous statement to be that the Pope can't be removed from office, then, though this is based on what I've heard, and may not in fact be based on the truth of the matter.

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01-29-2002, 11:56 AM	#3
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	So many things have happened to discredit the RC church in recent years: various sexual scandals, financial scandals and growing evidence of the Vatican's links with the Nazis and Fascists, that it is hardly surprising that people no longer want its authoritorian attitudes. Unfortunately, it looks as though the worst of catholicism is speedily being overshadowed by the worst of islamisation.

01-29-2002, 11:57 AM	#4
IvanK Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 2,016	If His Holiness truly thinks his opinion on divorce is going to sway non-Catholic lawyers or judges then he's really gone around the bend, poor fellow. Sadly, due to the whole infallibility thing and the consternation it would cause the Catholic Church to have an ex-Pope who might disagree with the pronouncements of a current Pope, he'll probably be in the chair until such time as he's unable to produce a coherent statement in any of the many languages he speaks.

01-29-2002, 01:27 PM	#5
daemon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 737	First off, the Pope is Pope until he dies. If he starts going totally senile, he might be completely hushed up, but he'll technically still be the Pope... Also, it should be noted that Papal infallability is only invoked when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, which is an amusingly political process in any case. If I recall correctly, there hasn't been an ex cathedra statement since the 60s or so, and it's not likely to be made unless the vast majority of Catholics agree.

01-29-2002, 02:06 PM	#6
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	What amazes me about the pope's view of divorce is that he considers it "evil", and lawyers and judges who work with divorce are themselves aiding "evil". I have no qualms about the pope's bashing of lawyers , they many times are two-faced relativists. My problem is with his evocation of the good old word "evil". The word is bandied about too much and though I can agree to a large degree that the attack on the WTC by religious suicide pilots was "evil", I just can't see that it is an equivalent evil when two people want to end a failed marriage. It cheapens a word which has a powerful meaning. I will tell you about the divorce which I think is evil. It is the divorce of the rulers of the catholic church from reality. The senile heirarchy of this patriarchial institution are quickening its downward spiral.

01-30-2002, 07:57 AM	#7
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Note that [contrary to ^^^ statement}, the POpe CAN resign == cease to be pope; one of the middle-way-back ones did that , afetr a very short reign; his name began w/ "C" , i think ; you could find it in an Almanac list. This here incumbent thinks he is put in un place by GOD; & has said he will stay in office until his Boss fires him.... Ever pray that siomeone wd die/ That;s no help! Guy said "seven other devils worse than the first; and as in so many others of his sentences, He was right about that too.

01-30-2002, 09:40 AM	#9
IvanK Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 2,016	I commend the above link to those curious about the mysterious ways in which the Lord of the Catholics seems to work. Apparently one can resign from the Papacy but one then has to be held captive, hunted down and closely guarded by one's successor.

01-30-2002, 09:56 AM	#10
daemon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 737	Intriguing, I hadn't heard of him. I suppose I should amend my previous statement to be that the Pope can't be removed from office, then, though this is based on what I've heard, and may not in fact be based on the truth of the matter.

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