HappyFunBall

ok. i was talking with some fundies again today, and one of the things this guy was talking about was how without the "christian worldview" more people are having premarital sex, resulting in more STD's, pregnancies, abortions, etc.. and this is a result of not having an "absoulte" morality from christianity.. and that this is why, basically, the US is the most moral country in the world (ha!) because we have more of a christian influence.. blah..

so what's a good refutation to this?

meritocrat

The supposed 'moral decline' has been occuring for decades.

And I don't think it's a bad thing.

Mageth

Well, you could start out by pointing out that they are committing a bit of a Non causa pro causa fallacy.

Mageth

You could also point out that teen pregnancy and abortion rates in the U.S. have declined over the last decade, for reasons not necessarily including "absolute morality."

Look here

tronvillain

How about the fact that the US being "the most moral country in the world" does not seem to have prevented it having an extremely high rate of teen pregnancy?

Pyrrho

How could you possibly refute the truth? Isn't it horrible that we no longer have slavery, which the Bible endorses? (e.g., Ex. 21:7) Don't you think it is terrible that children who curse their parents are not killed? (Ex. 21:17) Too bad we no longer stone women who are not virgins when they marry! (Deut. 22:20-21, This would also involve killing women who really were virgins, but simply did not bleed for whatever reason on their wedding night.)

There are so many good things in the GOOD BOOK that we have forsaken!

And for those who don't follow the teachings of the Old Testament, have them read Matthew 5:17-20 for the words of Jesus on this subject, so that they might repent from their wicked ways! Hallelujah!


(Note: Many versions of the Bible, such as the King James Version, have 'sanitized' many things. In the King James Version, "slave" is generally rendered as "servant", though when you read the verses about buying and selling them, you can know what a "servant" really means.)

HappyFunBall

yeah, it's one of those things where he's like "well if everyone was 'christian' then we wouldn't have these problems because no one would have sex before marraige" blah blah blah...

also, another guy was talking about the intdoctrination of sex education throughout school as part of the "secular humanism religious agenda" ick. he also said that it should just be up to the parents to teach their kids about sex, and that it should only take 5 minutes!! as for the kids whose parents don't care, well i guess he just doesn't give a shit about them.


also, he was talking about how supposedly "80% of married people who got divorces had premarital sex" wtf?

philechat

Basically, for those people, any change is considered decline. Because at their time they behaved a certain way, the only way they could imagine themselves doing, they consider what was different to be bad. It is true for all traditionalists in general--change and differences are bad, bad, bad, for the society's morals. As if there were no changes that lead to the state of cilivization they were living in at their time.

Ever heard of morality of mores? The idea is that for most people, what was old and passed through the test of time must be good. It is the appeal to tradition--nothing more and nothing less.

Jamie_L

Right, because all those people having pre-marital sex right now are atheists. NOT. Maybe the Christians should work on controlling their own flock, and show us some positive results, before they start trying to control everyone else and claiming that something good will come out of it.

Jamie

ybnormal

I don't waste my precious time with their deranged BS... once you understand the full weight of your above statement, you can cut to the chase and properly refer to them as bigoted supremacists, which they are. IOW, simply replace the word "christian" with most any other group of people and xians will call you a bigot. Why not test it on these fundies you're talking to.