Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bookwyrm · 05-10-2003, 06:26 PM

So, someone on a message board asserted that the colored halo produced by subjecting an object on a photographic plate to an electrical field is genuine evidence for the paranormal. I showed him this:

Quote:

http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html
Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines).

He, however, says that the reason Hines failed to get a pictures when the photograph was taken in a vacuum was because the vacuum killed the living thing which he was photographing, and dead things obviously won't generate biometric fields. I rather think that Hines wouldn't have overlooked something so obvious during his research, and I'm fairly certain that a vacuum is not instantly fatal and so the subject of such a trial would stay alive at least long enough to be photographed, but I'm having difficulty finding information to support or discredit Hines's experiment, could anyone here offer some help?

Jesse · 05-10-2003, 07:28 PM

Well, according to this page and this one people can survive exposure to a vacuum for at least a minute or so, I'm not sure about other animals or plants though. Do you know what organism Hines used in his experiment, and how long it was exposed to the vacuum?

Also, it's known that nonliving objects produce an "aura" in Kirlian photography too...for example, from this page:

Dan<Devil> · 05-11-2003, 12:10 PM

If you have the technology, you could isolate a living oganism in a glass bubble(or some other recipient) and then place the bubble in the vacuum. The living organism would be still alive, while placed in a vacuum...
You can also show the photo in the previos post to the believer

...In my opinion it is sufficient proof that 'biometric fields' are not relevant...

punta · 05-11-2003, 02:46 PM

If the kirlian aura is the result of electric alternation of the ionized gas resulting from the transfer of moisture from a living thing, then where did this moisture come from in inanimate object photographs such as the coin?

Also, does a non-conductive object such as rubber plug or dry wood stick reveal an aura?

Jesse · 05-11-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punta
If the kirlian aura is the result of electric alternation of the ionized gas resulting from the transfer of moisture from a living thing, then where did this moisture come from in inanimate object photographs such as the coin?

According to this page:

Quote:

Gary Poock and Paul W. Sparks reported in Smithsonian magazine that there are at least 13 factors that can influence the Kirlian image. These include voltage level, voltage pulse rate, moisture, atmospheric gasses, the internal force and angle of the object held against the film, and barometric pressure.

I think moisture is the dominant factor in living organisms but not necessarily in all objects. I'm not sure if non-conductive and dry objects like a piece of wood would show an aura or not, though.

Bookwyrm · 05-11-2003, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the help.

I don't think I've convinced him, but he's backed down and not interested in arguing this out, which is good for me considering I wasn't too interested in getting into an argument about this either, especially as my knowledge of this subject is pretty much limited to what I found on that page I linked in the opening post.

I'll have to see if there's a copy of Hines' book in one of the local libraries as this subject looks somewhat interesting. Well, back to lurking.

Worldtraveller · 05-13-2003, 05:01 AM

My wife and I had a 'aura' photograph taken once. (I'd scan it, but it's back in the states)
And the source of the 'field' is no secret. They have you put both hands on a small plate with electrodes in it (very low power, obviously

), then take the picture.
Of course, ours showed that we were very compatible with each other..yada, yada.....
It was fun, but by no means conclusive. And it's very interesting what they read into it. Kinda like astrology, or any other number of non scientific pursuits. Fun, but ultimately, just that...fun.

braces_for_impact · 05-13-2003, 05:53 AM

CSISOP has a decent on line article on the subject Here

Hope it already hasn't been posted.

This was also a Randi test that failed if I remember correctly.

05-11-2003, 12:10 PM	#3
Dan<Devil> Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 29	If you have the technology, you could isolate a living oganism in a glass bubble(or some other recipient) and then place the bubble in the vacuum. The living organism would be still alive, while placed in a vacuum... You can also show the photo in the previos post to the believer...In my opinion it is sufficient proof that 'biometric fields' are not relevant...

05-13-2003, 05:01 AM	#7
Worldtraveller Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,834	For what it's worth. My wife and I had a 'aura' photograph taken once. (I'd scan it, but it's back in the states) And the source of the 'field' is no secret. They have you put both hands on a small plate with electrodes in it (very low power, obviously ), then take the picture. Of course, ours showed that we were very compatible with each other..yada, yada..... It was fun, but by no means conclusive. And it's very interesting what they read into it. Kinda like astrology, or any other number of non scientific pursuits. Fun, but ultimately, just that...fun.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-10-2003, 07:28 PM	#2
Jesse Moderator - Science Discussions Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Providence, RI, USA Posts: 9,908	Well, according to this page and this one people can survive exposure to a vacuum for at least a minute or so, I'm not sure about other animals or plants though. Do you know what organism Hines used in his experiment, and how long it was exposed to the vacuum? Also, it's known that nonliving objects produce an "aura" in Kirlian photography too...for example, from this page:

05-11-2003, 02:46 PM	#4
punta Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Can-a-duh! Posts: 148	If the kirlian aura is the result of electric alternation of the ionized gas resulting from the transfer of moisture from a living thing, then where did this moisture come from in inanimate object photographs such as the coin? Also, does a non-conductive object such as rubber plug or dry wood stick reveal an aura?

05-11-2003, 05:59 PM	#6
Bookwyrm Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: L-Space Posts: 73	Thanks for the help. I don't think I've convinced him, but he's backed down and not interested in arguing this out, which is good for me considering I wasn't too interested in getting into an argument about this either, especially as my knowledge of this subject is pretty much limited to what I found on that page I linked in the opening post. I'll have to see if there's a copy of Hines' book in one of the local libraries as this subject looks somewhat interesting. Well, back to lurking.

05-13-2003, 05:53 AM	#8
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	CSISOP has a decent on line article on the subject Here Hope it already hasn't been posted. This was also a Randi test that failed if I remember correctly.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.