emotional

Isaiah 6 seems to contradict Magus on that point. God comes into the presence of Isaiah, and Isaiah feels impure (sinful) - "Woe is me, for I am rendered silent; for I am a man of impure lips". God is in the presence of an impure, sinful man. With His angels, certainly, but He is present.

The idea that God cannot be in the presence of sin is a Christian idea. The Hebrew Scriptures (conveniently OT to the Christians) know not of it.

Taffer

Weird. I remember hearing someplace that winged angels aren't mentioned anywhere in the Bible, and that the cliché can therefore be considered false. Which lines are you talking about?

Diadectes

Exactly - Magus, if God cannot be in the presence of sin, then he must be external to his creation, since it is supposedly fallen and corrupted by sin. In which case, how can human beings claim to have any knowledge of him? Either Jesus was God incarnate as Man, or he wasn't, in which case we have no reason to suppose that his claims (or, more probably, the claims made on his behalf) have any validity whatsoever. The idea that God cannot be in the presence of sin also supposes that sin is something of an equal or greater power to God, since it limits his ability to act directly in our universe, which - if you believe that God is omni-everything - is absurd.

Magus55

nope, being incarnate in the flesh allowed God to walk among sinners - God the Father, a spiritual entity can't be in sinners precense because He is perfect and Holy.

Rima

Is Satan in hell right now , I think he is not in hell , he is here on our earth , he is here to annoy us (Humans), he will be be sent to hell subsequently, with all who had follow him.

now the NT said about the angels that they are sinned and they will be subject to punishment on the" day of the judgement"

2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

1 Corinthians 6:3
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

blessings

Magus55

Nope, the Lord of hosts is Jesus Christ, who can be among humans because of being in the flesh.

Rima

when we talk about God the Father , do you mean YEHWEH ??

Magus55

Yes

Citrusponge

So given that Jesus can be in the presence of sin(ners), he is not perfect and holy?

Rima

thanks:
God the father is YEHWEH , Jesus is God the son

is God the son and God the Father one identity , in other words: are Jesus and Yehweh one identity , or they are two different beings
could our earth or even our universe handle God`s existence?

what happend when Moses met God (Yehweh) on the mountain of Sinai ?did Moses actually meet Jesus ?

can anybody see God , and survive?
how many people saw Jesus and lived with him?

thanks