Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rima · 07-03-2003, 06:59 PM

Hello:
I am a new member , old reader of your forum , I really enjoyed reading your topics and threads , finally I decided to become an active member .

one thing I would like to discuss with you , something has always been on my mind
Angels : what are they ?

are they a creatures , what kind of creatures are they?

are they only spiritual creatures, or they physically exist?
do they have body, head, hands , legs?
do they have their own world,community?
do they have an organized society ?

where the Idea that "angels are winged creatures" came from? has anybody met or seen one angel ever?

Finally:
what is the purpose of their creation ,why did God create angels , to serve Him, or to serve us ?

what the scripture told us about them
are they sinners like humans , or God created them without sins?

blessings

TiredJim · 07-03-2003, 08:32 PM

...you came to this message board for that information?

Rima · 07-03-2003, 08:42 PM

thanks for the welcoming message

NonHomogenized · 07-03-2003, 08:57 PM

Welcome to II, Rima!

now, on to business:

...you came to this message board for that information?

To expand on what TiredJim said, I feel obligated to point out that many, if not a notable majority, of the people here would say that angels are figments of the imaginations of the gullible... or something basically to that effect, only a lot more polite.

What evidence do you have that they are anything else?

sodium · 07-03-2003, 10:14 PM

Originally, angels were physical like us, but lived above the sky, except when they came down for some specific task. They have an unfortunate weakness for (and physical compatibility with) human women, which is partly why the flood was necessary. This is also why women should wear hats in church, so angels, looking above can't see their beautiful hair.

Ever since Plato, angels have become less and less physical, to the point where you can fit large numbers of them on the head of a pin (I can't remember how many, exactly).

Some angels help humans, but some look after God's needs, like the need to be constantly worshiped. Some, like Satan, seem designed to annoy humans, and test just how far their loyalty to God extends. But for some time (at least since Christianity), Satan has left the employ of God, and now torments humans avocationally.

Any questions?

Magus55 · 07-03-2003, 10:32 PM

Well, I can give you a Judeo-Christian answer to your questions about Angels

Quote:

Originally posted by Rima

Angels : what are they ?

Angels are servants/messengers created by God for specific purposes. Since God isn't capable of being in the precense of sin, He uses angels to carry out tasks for Him and to aid with God's Creation.

Quote:

are they a creatures , what kind of creatures are they?

are they only spiritual creatures, or they physically exist?

Angels are spiritual beings, but they can take on physical human form.

Quote:

do they have body, head, hands , legs?

Only if they take on human form, however they don't even have to be visible - they are just spiritual entities.

Quote:

do they have their own world,community?

They live in Heaven with God, or they are on Earth, completeing certain tasks.

Quote:

do they have an organized society ?

There are different rankings of angels, if thats what you mean. Seraphim, Cherubim, Principalities, Archangels, and Angels. There may be more rankings like Dominions and Virtues, but not sure on that. The other types of angels are mentioned in the Bible.

Quote:

where the Idea that "angels are winged creatures" came from? has anybody met or seen one angel ever?

Angels having wings is mentioned a couple times in the Bible, however wings aren't usually visible, and aren't likely necessary to travel.

I'm sure I'll get ridiculed for it, but yes people have supposedly seen Angels. A friend told me about his grandfather who was dying in the hospital, and a man walked into the grandfathers room. A nurse followed the man into the room because she didn't recognize him, and when she entered the room - the man disappeared with no other way out other than the door the nurse was at. When the nurse talked to the family, she told them an angel visited their grandfather. ( Supposedly a true story, believe or deny it if you want).

Quote:

Finally:
what is the purpose of their creation ,why did God create angels , to serve Him, or to serve us ?

God created angels to help with Creation and be messengers among Humans. Angels are also used fight spiritual battles with evil. God can't be in the precense of sin, so Angels are assigned to work amongst humans.

Quote:

what the scripture told us about them
are they sinners like humans , or God created them without sins?

The angels that serve God have free will like humans, but haven't sinned. A third of the Angels at Creation sinned against God, and joined Archangel Lucifer ( Satan) in rebellion, and they became fallen angels ( demons if you want to call them), and are now in Hell with Satan.

Angels are above humans, but below God.

Here is a site explaining Angels you might want to look at.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t005.html

Citrusponge · 07-04-2003, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Since God isn't capable of being in the precense of sin, He uses angels to carry out tasks for Him and to aid with God's Creation.

Being in the presence of sin is something that an omnipotent god is not capable of? Or is it just something that God really doesn't like

?

Diadectes · 07-04-2003, 04:06 AM

Quote:

God isn't capable of being in the precense of sin

Right. So the concept of the Incarnation is a load of baloney after all. Thanks for clearing that up for us Magus!

Rima · 07-04-2003, 05:42 AM

excellent reply magus, and very helpful link , thank you :notworthy

Quote:

Since God isn't capable of being in the precense of sin, He uses angels to carry out tasks for Him and to aid with God's Creation.

God is not capable , and God needs some angels, and uses angels to AID him

I Thought that God (the creator) is capable of everything (if he is capable of creation)
and I thought He is free of needs , and he does not need aids

what do you think

thanks for reply :boohoo:

Primordial Groove · 07-04-2003, 07:31 AM

Welcome to II.

What are angels? I think the word hallucination would describe their existence.

Let's look at one fact: if it exists in the universe, it's energy, in one form or another.

Here is a true story showing how angels are products of the mind:

A couple of years ago, my christian grandpappy was diagnosed with colon cancer. By the time he got his first sugery, it was to late, the cancer had metastisized(sp?). They could do nothing for him. For the next 5 months, he suffered, horribly. His last few days he wanted to kill himself. The excrutiating pain was an unbearable torment that could not be relieved. He had blood coming out both ends.

Anyway, the day before he died, my grandma walked in his room and found him looking across the room, at the wall, talking about his pain. When she asked who he was talking to, he informed her there were 3 angels. The story goes that he became angry when my grandma was unable to see them. Regardless, the next day, he died.

It was grandma who relayed this story to the family. This was more proof of a loving god, in her eyes.

Ok, ok, what does this have to do with angels? Here is my point.

If everything in the universe is energy in one form or another, grandma should have been able to see these supposed angels also. After all, energy cant violate any of the laws of conservaton of energy by hiding itself from my grandma, right?

Since grandma was not able to see these 'angels', they must have been an hallucination of a dying mind.

Nothing more.

07-03-2003, 06:59 PM	#1
Rima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 90	Angels Hello: I am a new member , old reader of your forum , I really enjoyed reading your topics and threads , finally I decided to become an active member . one thing I would like to discuss with you , something has always been on my mind Angels : what are they ? are they a creatures , what kind of creatures are they? are they only spiritual creatures, or they physically exist? do they have body, head, hands , legs? do they have their own world,community? do they have an organized society ? where the Idea that "angels are winged creatures" came from? has anybody met or seen one angel ever? Finally: what is the purpose of their creation ,why did God create angels , to serve Him, or to serve us ? what the scripture told us about them are they sinners like humans , or God created them without sins? blessings

07-03-2003, 10:14 PM	#5
sodium Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: British Columbia Posts: 1,027	Re: Angels Originally, angels were physical like us, but lived above the sky, except when they came down for some specific task. They have an unfortunate weakness for (and physical compatibility with) human women, which is partly why the flood was necessary. This is also why women should wear hats in church, so angels, looking above can't see their beautiful hair. Ever since Plato, angels have become less and less physical, to the point where you can fit large numbers of them on the head of a pin (I can't remember how many, exactly). Some angels help humans, but some look after God's needs, like the need to be constantly worshiped. Some, like Satan, seem designed to annoy humans, and test just how far their loyalty to God extends. But for some time (at least since Christianity), Satan has left the employ of God, and now torments humans avocationally. Any questions?

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07-03-2003, 08:32 PM	#2
TiredJim Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: here, sometimes there Posts: 71	...you came to this message board for that information?

07-03-2003, 08:42 PM	#3
Rima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 90	thanks for the welcoming message

07-03-2003, 08:57 PM	#4
NonHomogenized Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: no longer at IIDB Posts: 1,644	Welcome to II, Rima! now, on to business: ...you came to this message board for that information? To expand on what TiredJim said, I feel obligated to point out that many, if not a notable majority, of the people here would say that angels are figments of the imaginations of the gullible... or something basically to that effect, only a lot more polite. What evidence do you have that they are anything else?

07-04-2003, 07:31 AM	#10
Primordial Groove Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 1,570	Welcome to II. What are angels? I think the word hallucination would describe their existence. Let's look at one fact: if it exists in the universe, it's energy, in one form or another. Here is a true story showing how angels are products of the mind: A couple of years ago, my christian grandpappy was diagnosed with colon cancer. By the time he got his first sugery, it was to late, the cancer had metastisized(sp?). They could do nothing for him. For the next 5 months, he suffered, horribly. His last few days he wanted to kill himself. The excrutiating pain was an unbearable torment that could not be relieved. He had blood coming out both ends. Anyway, the day before he died, my grandma walked in his room and found him looking across the room, at the wall, talking about his pain. When she asked who he was talking to, he informed her there were 3 angels. The story goes that he became angry when my grandma was unable to see them. Regardless, the next day, he died. It was grandma who relayed this story to the family. This was more proof of a loving god, in her eyes. Ok, ok, what does this have to do with angels? Here is my point. If everything in the universe is energy in one form or another, grandma should have been able to see these supposed angels also. After all, energy cant violate any of the laws of conservaton of energy by hiding itself from my grandma, right? Since grandma was not able to see these 'angels', they must have been an hallucination of a dying mind. Nothing more.

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