ChrisJ

The First Amendment:

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Doesn't prohibiting prayer in school prohibit the free excercise of a religion? I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I read this, and it got me thinking, and I wanted to hear some opinions.

Orestes

Student prayer itself isnt prohibited. What is prohibited is school wide led prayer that attempts to compel all students to pray a particular way or to a particular deity. For example, praying to Jesus over the loud speaker, and likewise for praying to Allah, or Shiva, or any other deity, is prohibited.

Toto

Nothing prohibits prayer in schools. Anyone in a school is free to pray anytime as long as they are not disrupting others.

Forcing someone else to listen to your pray or participate in your prayer is prohibited. Does that violate anyone's freedom of religion?

gallo

Yes. Prohibiting prayer in school is a violation of the 1st and 14th Amendments. That is why prayer in school is not prohibited. Students may pray whenever and wherever they wish, as long as it is not disruptive and as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. Thus, there are many religious clubs in schools - they conduct programs like meeting before school for prayer. Some even pass out religious tracts in school.

However, were the school district to approve of a period of prayer, or were a teacher to lead a prayer, then such actions would be a prohibition on the free exercise of religion by those who do not wish to take part. To exclude dissenters by requiring that they report to some alternate location or stand in the hall has also been found to be unconstitutional. Such remedies attach social stigma and single out dissenters.

Jamie_L

Even school officials can pray, as long as they don't do it in their official capacity. Teachers can say grace before they eat their lunch. In between classes, they can pray out loud. It's only when they're at the head of the class, acting as agents of the government - or other situations where the public may perceive them as serving as agents of the government, that they can't endorse a particular religion over another (or religion in general over the lack thereof).

It is a gross misrepresentation for proponents of school-led prayer to say prayer in schools is prohibitted. If you want your child to pray in school. Tell him to pray. It's only when you want SOMEONE ELSE'S kid to pray, and you get the school to tell him to, or use the school to let your kid tell him to, that there's a problem.

And that's a big problem.

Jamie

ChrisJ

Thanks, everyone. This is something I had been thinking about for a while. I had read an article (and I'll find it to source it here) that stated that students were not allowed to form "prayer clubs" or other religious organizations which required after school classroom space, or a teacher sponsor. Is this different than just students praying? Should this not be allowed?

PopeInTheWoods

Howdy ChrisJ!

Please do post the source of that {mis)information if you can find it. Here's a <a href="http://www.aclu.org/issues/religion/relig7.html" target="_blank">guide to religious rights of students</a> that is supported by such diverse groups as the ACLU, Interfaith Alliance, and Christian Coalition. Non-disruptive individual and student-led voluntary prayer is supported, as are extracurricular religious groups. If you're asking for personal opinions, I by and large agree with this document. Schools, as with all government agencies, should neither promote nor restrict religious expression.

Andy