The Resistance

It is often mentioned that the US is more fundie than any other Western democracy.

Why is that? Did something happen in European history that didn't happen in the US? Did the rise of American power bloat our egos to think God favors us? That last one was almost a rhetorical question but didn't necessarily cause our religiousity.

Any ideas?

David Gould

No idea - my guess is higher levels of public education spending, but I'm a socialist and my dialectic is giving me gip.


Perhaps the fact that the US was started by the a religiously persecuted minority in opposition to a catholic 'global' hegemony forced them to be radical in their response.

Geographic and thus temporal isolation from events in Europe such as the gradual moderating of both Catholic power and the methods used to retain power left a hardcore group of fanatical religious leader types around.

These groups perpetuated themselves and then flourished as the conditions became more favourable - conditions like rapid change (particularly technological and moral), anti-intellectualism, economic hardship in their regions, global conflict and a shaking of the trust in those in political power.

I think that Europe has an older instutional memory, as it were - war and change are common. Religious fundamentalism has had its day there and it is a new time.

Australia never threw of the european yoke, if such it may be called, and thus has a european outlook.

I could of course be spinning shit in the above, but it sounds as though I know something, doesn't it?

echidna

I’ve been dying to ask this question myself, although I would have worded it :

Why is the U.S. such a bastion of Christian fundamentalism ?

brahma

...because the others have had their turn?

The Resistance

Good question. I'd love to hear ideas on that too. I suggested America becoming a superpower might have something to do with it, but I'm less than sure.

Maybe some input from Europeans would shed light on this.

Plus, I liked David's idea of a better public education system. It makes a lot of sense. Of course, America's education has been going downhill for awhile and it doesn't look like things are going to improve.

Vorkosigan

I think the better public education system, if it is really true -- and frankly I doubt it -- isn't the answer.

Historical accident is probably the right answer. One may as well ask why Europeans are so prone to have continent-rending wars twice a century. The excellent public education system? I think not. Everyone has their own curses.

No, fundamentalism is a response by marginalized types to the problems of modernity. It depends on several particularly American ways of thinking -- our messianic view of history, our eagerness to attend events where public speeches are made, our bizarre individualism (a personal relationship with Jesus), the fact that the Churches are not "tainted" by compromise with the State and State power......and many other things.

Michael

moon

You will notice that fundamentalism thrives in cultures that are insulated from the rest of the world. The south remains much more fundamentalist than the rest of the country, and especially in the rural areas where people aren't exposed to different ways of thinking.

In the more urban areas, where people are exposed to different ways of thinking, and they have to learn to respect different points of view, fundamentalism is much less pervasive.

The U.S. is, in general, much more isolationist than the rest of the "civilized" world, and a great proportion of the population is able to live without ever having to deal with or respect differing points of view. In Europe, where you have vastly different cultures living side by side, where it is necessary to know about different points of view, fundamentalism is almost non-existent.

Incidentally, I think this also explains many other aspects of American society, such as the American love affair with guns, the relatively weak power of unions and working class power, and the general anti-progressive nature of our politics.

Pandora

It appears to me that Americans are trying to find something to belong to. Perhaps a very recent history has led to a kind of mass lack of security that needs things like a powerful, controlling religion in order to define self. The non existence of a state religion leads to almost tribal warfare amongst the denominations. Humans like “causes” and if that cause needs fighting for, and has a good reward/punishment system it becomes very attractive.

In Europe we have centuries old state religions which have rather lost their way – much like the monarchies. They have become important figureheads but have very little real power.

Education and more importantly increased wealth and living standards play a large role in the demise of the churches importance. The main areas in which they are still strong are in the poorer European countries – Southern Ireland, southern Italy et.c. A large proportion of charitable resources are under the control of the clergy, which helps to instill a sense of both gratitude and obligation in the parishioners.

The church is not seen as a place for meeting people. I’ve never heard of a pot luck supper! Churches are a bit like a crisis counselors office – you run there when you are suffering, but don’t think about it the rest of the time- and a place for the official occasions in life – hatch, match, dispatch. Not because most people actually believe, but because it’s what one does for convention and tradition’s sake.

Becoming a priest either in the Cof E or the Roman Catholic church requires years and years of training and qualifications (and celibacy for the R.C) before you get your turn to speak before an audience. The fundy churches in the US don’t seem to be very picky about who can get up and preach (I might be wrong here) – this probably appeals to quite the worst kinds of people as well as some of the better.

Seeker196

1) It was founded by the PURITANS for Odin's sake!! We should be thankful it mellowed out so much...

2) For a lot of its history, America defined itself in opposition to non Protestant and non Christian others (Spanish, Mexicans, the native inhabitants).

3) The Civil War (for the South, at least) ingrained 'old-timey' (fundamentalist) religion as part of Southern identity. More precisely, AFTER the war.

4) The early 1970s-1980s: There was a reaction against the changes of 1968-1971, and conservatives became much more vocal about religion. This is where our modern American conservatism comes from. I don't know how to explain it...

Deadend

I guess us <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/graphic/0,7367,506179,00.html" target="_blank">Yurpeans</a> have just been blessed.

Seriously though, I think the effect of socialism and the horrors of World War II are the main reasons for our irreligiousness.

American fundamentalism might be caused by the fact that fundamentalists consider themselves to be God’s chosen people combined with the status of America as the current superpower, which makes it seem as if the fundamentalists are correct.