Freethought & Rationalism Archive

kwigibo · 11-10-2002, 12:40 AM

Trebaxian, do you ever have nocturnal emissions?

MadMordigan · 11-10-2002, 01:31 AM

So it's ok for women to masturbate then?
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No, for masturbation entertains no valuable purpose.

lunachick · 11-10-2002, 01:45 AM

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No, for masturbation entertains no valuable purpose

You should have ended that sentence with 'entertains'.

Well, I'm off to bed. Now, let me see...who will I mentally rape tonight?

oooh, I know - that yummy guy who hosts Fear Factor. And maybe I'll mentally get Johnny Depp to join in, as well. I'm kinda mentally greedy like that.

Hey, Tebaxian Vir - have you ever had a hard-on? What do you do with it when it so crudely makes that little tent in your sheets in the morning? Just curious...

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: lunachick ]</p>

Totalitarianist · 11-10-2002, 01:17 PM

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This is the type of self-rightous priggish thinking that turns pedophiles into priests.

I believe that their condition is, to an extent, genetically predetermined.

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Can you give some biblical references (besides Onan spilling his seed)to back up your belief?

Why would I?

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After reading your post, I looked on the web and found many sites stating what you did, but all were based in Christianity. Otherwise no-one, nowhere advocates repressing masturbation.

And that is their folly. Not mine.

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It is pretty much (as far as I can find) a strictly Christian phonomenon, and then only within some sects.

Correct.

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I do think that we are hardwired to have a sex drive and to get enjoyment from sex.

Nature has us enjoy sex only for her purpose of our procreation. If it does not procreate, it is, as the brilliant philsopher Kant said, contrary to Nature's end.

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Trebaxian Vir ]</p>

Totalitarianist · 11-10-2002, 01:29 PM

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Now, would you care to actually show how I committed those logical fallacies? No? What a surprise.

I was just waiting for the invitation.
When you say, "one doubts that you desire rational discussion", you are attacking the arguer. When you say, "like most people around here", you appeal to the majority. You also say that my argument is not "rational" because I use a "religious term", even although it is synonymous with "masturbation". In a way you are distorting my argument so that you can more easily attack it.

Totalitarianist · 11-10-2002, 01:32 PM

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What is wrong with having pleasure?

Ask the man who fondles sleeping boys, or the man who has sex with animals, or the man who kills babies, or the man who masturbates the same question.

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Also, are you arguing that bad thoughts will lead to bad deeds?

They often do.

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Or are bad thoughts, in and of themselves, bad?

They are.

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If I have "bad" thoughts but never act on them, am I still a moral person?

No.

Totalitarianist · 11-10-2002, 01:36 PM

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I don't understand why you talk about Onan and "Onanism"... are you a Christian or a Jew or something?

No.

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BTW, what if a person is fantasizing about their hand or a cartoon character or something? Are they still guilty of "rape"?

They are guilty of committing the unnecessary and, in my perspective, misusing their sexual organs.

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It's strange that you have shown support for Stalin and his massacres and probably things like slavery but you're against "thought crimes" that don't seem to harm anybody...

See <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000439" target="_blank">this</a> post.

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Also, I think animals such as dogs can masturbate sometimes... what do you think should be done about them?

Morals do not apply to animals.

ExTheist · 11-10-2002, 02:15 PM

Trebaxian, what ever consenting adults do with their bodies is natural and healthy. I think the reason you like Stalin is that you are a control freak. The operative word here is freak because you will never control anyone except yourself. People can get ourselves off anytime we wish and never have to answer to anybody. I suggest you try onanism and maybe even find a hit of lsd. You need to lighten up, let go, let your hair down and relax.

tronvillain · 11-10-2002, 02:36 PM

Trebaxian Vir:

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I was just waiting for the invitation.
When you say, "one doubts that you desire rational discussion", you are attacking the arguer. When you say, "like most people around here", you appeal to the majority. You also say that my argument is not "rational" because I use a "religious term", even although it is synonymous with "masturbation". In a way you are distorting my argument so that you can more easily attack it.

Oh, I was certainly attacking you (I think you're a bloody loony) but a personal attack is not an <a href="http://gncurtis.home.texas.net/adhomine.html" target="_blank">argumentum ad hominem</a>. Similarly, the simple observation that others share my opinion is not an <a href="http://www.goodart.org/pop.htm" target="_blank">argumentum ad populum</a>. Finally, one cannot construct a straw man of a nonexistent argument - I did not say your argument was irrational, since you presented no argument whatsoever. What I actually said was "...it is ridiculous to use such a loaded religious term when attempting rational discussion..." which it is.

You lose little man.

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

tronvillain · 11-10-2002, 02:40 PM

Now, if you're done whining about nonexist logical fallacies, perhaps you would like to address my responses to your central questions?

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Is masturbation a "misuse" of our sexual organs? No, since our sexual organs have no inherent purpose. Oh, they have obviously evolved to give us pleasure in order to promote mating and thus to promote sexual reproduction, but we are under no obligation to use them for strictly reproductive purposes, or indeed for sexual purposes at all. Is masturbation unnatural? It would be relatively easy to argue that it is a perfectly natural activity for a primate, but frankly, who cares if it is or not? Is masturbation immoral? Morality is subjective, so whether or not masturbation is immoral depends on the individual making the judgement. Personally, I see nothing immoral about it - it generally brings pleasure while harming no one.

I hope that helps.

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11-10-2002, 12:40 AM	#41
kwigibo Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia Posts: 5,814	Trebaxian, do you ever have nocturnal emissions?

11-10-2002, 01:31 AM	#42
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	So it's ok for women to masturbate then? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, for masturbation entertains no valuable purpose. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

11-10-2002, 02:15 PM	#48
ExTheist Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 238	Trebaxian, what ever consenting adults do with their bodies is natural and healthy. I think the reason you like Stalin is that you are a control freak. The operative word here is freak because you will never control anyone except yourself. People can get ourselves off anytime we wish and never have to answer to anybody. I suggest you try onanism and maybe even find a hit of lsd. You need to lighten up, let go, let your hair down and relax.

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