Freethought & Rationalism Archive

PaladInChrist · 06-13-2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

No it isn't the whole story, theres the slaves, the rape, being a rustler, cruelity to animals and making your wife get gang banged by Pharohs court...all because voices in his head told him.

I asked:

"Chapter, Verse please where the "voices" told him to do these things."

Quote:

Okay then I'll just take this as another evasion in a long list of evasions.

No, its called requiring you to actually back up your ridiculous claims. Cutting through your smokescreen is the first step in communication.

Quote:

I was wondering why you gave yourself the name Paladinchrist? It leads one to expect a knight in shining armor riding out to do battle with the evil infidels. Why not something like EvasionEddy, or SidestepSidTheTapDanceKid, it's long but it's accurate?

Sorry to disappoint you, but you can't get me to fight. God Bless.

Mageth · 06-13-2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by PaladInChrist
Nope, he died for your sins too, and your ancestors. His sacrifice is outside of time. He died once, but His sacrifice exists eternally in a mystical manner.

Congratulations. You get the "Sounds impressive but totally meaningless statement of the day" award. And it's only 10 am my time.

Do you Xians even listen to the gobbledy-gook you say? You don't appear to think about them much. What does "outside of time" mean? What is "existing eternally in a mystical manner" mean? These things may sound impressive and meaningful to some people, but not to me. To me, they're nonsense.

Maybe when you are all knowing and all powerful, you can think up a better solution. Perhaps there is more to it than you know?

I can think up better solutions and I'm not all knowing and/or all powerful. Perhaps there is less to it than you think?

BTW, "all knowing" and "all powerful" are two more concepts I consider nonsensical.

Mageth · 06-13-2003, 08:27 AM

Sabine:

I am in a bit of a quandary. Do I accept Jesus' words as recorded in Matthew 5, or accept your words and thus conclude that Jesus must have been lying in Matthew?

Mageth · 06-13-2003, 08:30 AM

No, its called requiring you to actually back up your ridiculous claims. Cutting through your smokescreen is the first step in communication.

Back up this ridiculous claim:

His sacrifice exists eternally in a mystical manner.

Biff the unclean · 06-13-2003, 09:05 AM

"Chapter, Verse please where the "voices" told him to do these things."
� its called requiring you to actually back up your ridiculous claims. Cutting through your smokescreen is the first step in communication.
Okay Plad let's cut through the smoke screen. You have come to class unprepared and are trying to bluff your way through�but it isn't working. You didn't dodge bullets yesterday you dodged giving a straight answer. I listed a bunch of what today are immoral acts perpetrated by Abraham.
My ridiculous claim was that God spoke to Abraham, alone. And you want me to go to the bible and pick out every time he did!!!!???? Don't presume waste my time on fool's errands

God Bless.
A small matter of social graces. When one is speaking to people that one knows are Atheists to tell them "God bless" is considered rude and in poor taste

ex-xian · 06-14-2003, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PaladInChrist
I think it is important to realize that the Old Testament laws were put in place to teach us something...we can't live up to them and we need God's grace in order to be saved. We needed to be humbled, so to speak.

I would still like to be known how men ejaculating and women menstrating being unclean teaches us anything about the law of love. Also, defacate was to buried outside the tribe in case god was passing through as saw it. What does this teach us other than god looks at human functions as something to be ashamed of?

I realize that some posts get lost in the shuffle, but please respond to this question...

Quote:

Originally posted by PaladInChrist
Everything except the Law of Love was thrown out, it wasnt pick and choose, as you say.

Originally posted by Mageth
So you think homosexuality is OK now, I assume. Good for you.

Sabine Grant · 06-14-2003, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
Sabine:

I am in a bit of a quandary. Do I accept Jesus' words as recorded in Matthew 5, or accept your words and thus conclude that Jesus must have been lying in Matthew?

No not at all Mageth.....no need to go to those extremes. Did he stone or encourage the stoning of the adultress or did he prevent it? please give me your analysis of why he would have broken that ancestral law by preventing it to be applied.

PaladInChrist · 06-16-2003, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Congratulations. You get the "Sounds impressive but totally meaningless statement of the day" award. And it's only 10 am my time.

Do you Xians even listen to the gobbledy-gook you say? You don't appear to think about them much. What does "outside of time" mean? What is "existing eternally in a mystical manner" mean? These things may sound impressive and meaningful to some people, but not to me. To me, they're nonsense.

You are right in that it does sound meaningless to you. Scripture has already told us that much....natural man vs spiritual man.

It's ok, I still love ya.

But you are wrong that _I_ don't understand what _I_ said.

PaladInChrist · 06-16-2003, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Okay Plad let's cut through the smoke screen. You have come to class unprepared and are trying to bluff your way through�but it isn't working.

Then prove me wrong. If I am not "prepared" to debate you, then it should be an easy slaughter, right?

Quote:

I listed a bunch of what today are immoral acts perpetrated by Abraham.

And I asked for you to back up your claims.

Quote:

My ridiculous claim was that God spoke to Abraham, alone.

Yes, your ridiculous claim was that God told Abraham to do a bunch of immoral acts. I am still waiting for that evidence.

agnawstick · 06-16-2003, 08:55 AM

God blessed Abraham specifically since he was such a swell guy.
It didn't matter what Abraham did. He married his half-sister Sarai, lied to the Pharoah that he was her husband, allowed the Pharoah to court her in good faith, bestowing gifts on the both of them, and then waited for God to zap Pharoah after he had slept with Sarai. Abraham admitted straight up that he was terrified of death, so that is why he whored out his sister/wife to the Pharoah. Abraham wasn't punished, Pharoah was. I think that is God's ringing endorsement of Abraham's actions.

Abraham kept 183 slaves. When his nephew Lot was kidnapped into slavery, Abraham sent his slaves to rescue Lot. No irony noticed in the bible. Abraham did the let's not call you my wife thing again with Sarai, and God bore false witness against the King who almost slept with her, then told the guy who staunchly proclaimed his innocence... oh yeah, I made you not want to sleep with her yet. Then Sarai takes her slave Hagar, allows Abraham to rape her. She gets pregnant, Sarai gets jealous and continuously beats Hagar. Hagar flees, God's angels find Hagar, and tell her she must go back and take more beatings from her mistress.

What fun stuff. Hagar's kid is the oldest, he doesn't get the inheritance. Finally, God helps Sarah get knocked up, and her kid Isaac is going to be the father of the nation of Israel. When you think about it, it is Isaac who fathers the nation, not Abraham, because his other kids don't count. Then God has to test Abraham who had married his sister, kept slaves, whored his wife out twice, lied to honorable kings and waited for God to zap them, and now... Abraham is considered moral, because God asks him to slaughter his own son, after abandoning his other son, and the slave he raped in the wilderness with just a loaf of bread and a jug of water.

This is the foundation of a religion? There was not one guy on the planet who didn't marry his sister, whore her out, abandon the slave he raped and his first born son? Abraham was the best there was to offer? God did bless it. No matter how evil Abraham acted, God always shone the light upon him. Let's not even get into his nephew Lot who tried to toss his virgin daughters at an angry mob to brutally rape, to save two Angels who needed no saving. Then the day after God turns his wife to salt, knocks up one daughter, then the next daughter the day after and claims that he was too drunk to remember doing it, but could get it up, and is considered to be a moral man. Lovely, lovely stuff there.

But then we have Moses who orders an entire tribe killed, gets pissed off when the women and children are spared, and orders all the male children killed, all the non virginal women slaughtered (how did they check?) and for the virgin women and young girls to be split up between the army, the priesthood, and the rest of the people along with all the livestock they stole.

It is God's will though. How does one dare question that? The morality of these stories stink. No wonder God decided to produce the greatest mass abortion in the world when he flooded the earth and killed all the pregnant women and their unborn babies because they were evil.

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06-13-2003, 08:22 AM	#82
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Originally posted by PaladInChrist Nope, he died for your sins too, and your ancestors. His sacrifice is outside of time. He died once, but His sacrifice exists eternally in a mystical manner. Congratulations. You get the "Sounds impressive but totally meaningless statement of the day" award. And it's only 10 am my time. Do you Xians even listen to the gobbledy-gook you say? You don't appear to think about them much. What does "outside of time" mean? What is "existing eternally in a mystical manner" mean? These things may sound impressive and meaningful to some people, but not to me. To me, they're nonsense. Maybe when you are all knowing and all powerful, you can think up a better solution. Perhaps there is more to it than you know? I can think up better solutions and I'm not all knowing and/or all powerful. Perhaps there is less to it than you think? BTW, "all knowing" and "all powerful" are two more concepts I consider nonsensical.

06-13-2003, 08:27 AM	#83
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Sabine: I am in a bit of a quandary. Do I accept Jesus' words as recorded in Matthew 5, or accept your words and thus conclude that Jesus must have been lying in Matthew?

06-13-2003, 08:30 AM	#84
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	No, its called requiring you to actually back up your ridiculous claims. Cutting through your smokescreen is the first step in communication. Back up this ridiculous claim: His sacrifice exists eternally in a mystical manner.

06-13-2003, 09:05 AM	#85
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	"Chapter, Verse please where the "voices" told him to do these things." � its called requiring you to actually back up your ridiculous claims. Cutting through your smokescreen is the first step in communication. Okay Plad let's cut through the smoke screen. You have come to class unprepared and are trying to bluff your way through�but it isn't working. You didn't dodge bullets yesterday you dodged giving a straight answer. I listed a bunch of what today are immoral acts perpetrated by Abraham. My ridiculous claim was that God spoke to Abraham, alone. And you want me to go to the bible and pick out every time he did!!!!???? Don't presume waste my time on fool's errands God Bless. A small matter of social graces. When one is speaking to people that one knows are Atheists to tell them "God bless" is considered rude and in poor taste

06-16-2003, 08:55 AM	#90
agnawstick Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: arcadia California Posts: 65	God blessed Abraham specifically since he was such a swell guy. It didn't matter what Abraham did. He married his half-sister Sarai, lied to the Pharoah that he was her husband, allowed the Pharoah to court her in good faith, bestowing gifts on the both of them, and then waited for God to zap Pharoah after he had slept with Sarai. Abraham admitted straight up that he was terrified of death, so that is why he whored out his sister/wife to the Pharoah. Abraham wasn't punished, Pharoah was. I think that is God's ringing endorsement of Abraham's actions. Abraham kept 183 slaves. When his nephew Lot was kidnapped into slavery, Abraham sent his slaves to rescue Lot. No irony noticed in the bible. Abraham did the let's not call you my wife thing again with Sarai, and God bore false witness against the King who almost slept with her, then told the guy who staunchly proclaimed his innocence... oh yeah, I made you not want to sleep with her yet. Then Sarai takes her slave Hagar, allows Abraham to rape her. She gets pregnant, Sarai gets jealous and continuously beats Hagar. Hagar flees, God's angels find Hagar, and tell her she must go back and take more beatings from her mistress. What fun stuff. Hagar's kid is the oldest, he doesn't get the inheritance. Finally, God helps Sarah get knocked up, and her kid Isaac is going to be the father of the nation of Israel. When you think about it, it is Isaac who fathers the nation, not Abraham, because his other kids don't count. Then God has to test Abraham who had married his sister, kept slaves, whored his wife out twice, lied to honorable kings and waited for God to zap them, and now... Abraham is considered moral, because God asks him to slaughter his own son, after abandoning his other son, and the slave he raped in the wilderness with just a loaf of bread and a jug of water. This is the foundation of a religion? There was not one guy on the planet who didn't marry his sister, whore her out, abandon the slave he raped and his first born son? Abraham was the best there was to offer? God did bless it. No matter how evil Abraham acted, God always shone the light upon him. Let's not even get into his nephew Lot who tried to toss his virgin daughters at an angry mob to brutally rape, to save two Angels who needed no saving. Then the day after God turns his wife to salt, knocks up one daughter, then the next daughter the day after and claims that he was too drunk to remember doing it, but could get it up, and is considered to be a moral man. Lovely, lovely stuff there. But then we have Moses who orders an entire tribe killed, gets pissed off when the women and children are spared, and orders all the male children killed, all the non virginal women slaughtered (how did they check?) and for the virgin women and young girls to be split up between the army, the priesthood, and the rest of the people along with all the livestock they stole. It is God's will though. How does one dare question that? The morality of these stories stink. No wonder God decided to produce the greatest mass abortion in the world when he flooded the earth and killed all the pregnant women and their unborn babies because they were evil.

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