Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DivineOb · 09-02-2002, 03:28 AM

Greetings,

I'm sure this problem has been explored throughout the centuries (and I am well aware of the danger of 'god in the gaps' reasoning) but how do nontheists deal with the isssue of consciousness in a non-deity world? To me (a recent deconversion) this remains the sole (that I can think of) stumbling block... how can consciousness (ie the perception that free will exists) come from 'mere matter'? What is an explanation that explains the world, lacking (at the bare minimum) the god of deism?

Steven Carr · 09-02-2002, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DivineOb:
<strong>Greetings,

I'm sure this problem has been explored throughout the centuries (and I am well aware of the danger of 'god in the gaps' reasoning) but how do nontheists deal with the isssue of consciousness in a non-deity world? To me (a recent deconversion) this remains the sole (that I can think of) stumbling block... how can consciousness (ie the perception that free will exists) come from 'mere matter'? What is an explanation that explains the world, lacking (at the bare minimum) the god of deism?</strong>

It seems a perfectly natural phenomenon to me.

Can you explain how unconscious people recover consciousness after surgery without divine intervention?

Why do you think that matter cannot produced consciousness , when , on the face of it, it seems to be as natural a phenomenon as breathing or excreting?

Is this nothing more than 'Nature isn't natural' theology , and 'The Universe doesn't know how to behave properly' theology?

Perhaps you might think it is hard for matter to produce consciousness, but that does not mean that the Universe finds it hard to do so.

Lord Asriel · 09-02-2002, 05:09 AM

I would recommend that you read Nicholas Humphrey - "A History of the Mind" (if you can find a copy - it doesn't seem to be in the SecWeb bookshop). He lays out a possible evolution of a self-aware consciousness without intervention from any kind of creator. It's simply a demonstration of how such a thing is possible, not a suggestion that this is how it happened.

Marduk · 09-02-2002, 03:45 PM

DivineOb I've always had this problem as well, is consciousness matter or energy? does it have mass? what is the speed of thought or inspiration or recall? If it is energy does it travel like a TV signal? Are my thoughts from yesterday heading toward space? Is the universe itself a consciousness that we are part of? Idunno.

Island3 · 09-02-2002, 07:05 PM

Perhaps this might yield more responses in the E/C forum?

As for me, consciousness and our perception of the physical world as is portrayed to us by our senses are all connected to and appear to be wholly dependant upon the brain for functioning properly. Seeing as how the brain is a combination of matter and electrical impulses, I can only imagine that self-awareness is also tied directly into the brain as well therefore effectively rendering consciousness to the realm of both matter and energy tightly packed inside a calcium shell.

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Island3 ]</p>

09-02-2002, 03:28 AM	#1
DivineOb Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: gore Posts: 31	The problem of consciousness Greetings, I'm sure this problem has been explored throughout the centuries (and I am well aware of the danger of 'god in the gaps' reasoning) but how do nontheists deal with the isssue of consciousness in a non-deity world? To me (a recent deconversion) this remains the sole (that I can think of) stumbling block... how can consciousness (ie the perception that free will exists) come from 'mere matter'? What is an explanation that explains the world, lacking (at the bare minimum) the god of deism?

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09-02-2002, 05:09 AM	#3
Lord Asriel Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 467	I would recommend that you read Nicholas Humphrey - "A History of the Mind" (if you can find a copy - it doesn't seem to be in the SecWeb bookshop). He lays out a possible evolution of a self-aware consciousness without intervention from any kind of creator. It's simply a demonstration of how such a thing is possible, not a suggestion that this is how it happened.

09-02-2002, 03:45 PM	#4
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	DivineOb I've always had this problem as well, is consciousness matter or energy? does it have mass? what is the speed of thought or inspiration or recall? If it is energy does it travel like a TV signal? Are my thoughts from yesterday heading toward space? Is the universe itself a consciousness that we are part of? Idunno.

09-02-2002, 07:05 PM	#5
Island3 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 250	Perhaps this might yield more responses in the E/C forum? As for me, consciousness and our perception of the physical world as is portrayed to us by our senses are all connected to and appear to be wholly dependant upon the brain for functioning properly. Seeing as how the brain is a combination of matter and electrical impulses, I can only imagine that self-awareness is also tied directly into the brain as well therefore effectively rendering consciousness to the realm of both matter and energy tightly packed inside a calcium shell. [ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Island3 ]</p>

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