Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Abacus · 10-04-2002, 01:39 PM

Which god/goddess?

scigirl · 10-04-2002, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
Why else are you so threatened by ID when it is supported by some exceedingly solid science?

Could you provide a link to this solid evidence please?

Thanks,

scigirl

Coragyps · 10-04-2002, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Why else are you so threatened by ID when it is supported by some exceedingly solid science?

Please pull any that you have out, and let's have a look at it. Even some pretty mushy science would be a good start.

GeoTheo · 10-04-2002, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scigirl:
<strong>

Scigirl steps outside and looks around.
She sees a globe in someone's window. "Wow," scigirl ponders. "Wow this God must love fish more than humans, since the earth itself is 3/4ths water!"

She then sees a telescope, looks through it. "Hmmm," she says, "a huge enormous galaxy, and yet some people believe that a god I'll call 'God' made all the universe just for us, and cares whether we all worship Him or not? Just doesn't seem logical! I think God loves empty space WAY more than he loves me!!"

She then wanders over to the local hospital where people are suffering from a myriad of diseases, including nasty parasitic infections, a patient suffering from cystic fibrosis, a patient with lower back pain, and a patient who just had her appendix removed. "Hmmm," Scigirl thinks, "Yep the world is full of beautiful and wonderous creatures, just like the Bible says."

She then passes by a TV, where they are showing the latest bombing in Isreal and Palestine. The alleged Holy Lands, and still in turmoil since they day God blessed them.

Out of the corner of her eye she sees a native american patient waiting to see the doctor. "Hmm, that reminds me - a population of people that God just forgot about - He wanted us to worship his Son, but frankly forgot to send him over there! What a great God he is. I wonder if this gentlemen's ancestors are in Hell for being born in the wrong time?"

Ok I looked around, still an atheist (at least to the Christian God).

scigirl</strong>

None of your conclusions have been shown at all.
Especially the water and size of galaxy part.
Value is related to scarcity.
Suffering is a neccesary evil of existence in a physical world. You imply a knowledge of how to do it differently. But you actually don't posess such knowledge.

scigirl · 10-04-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
That is the part you atheistic evolutionists don't get. That is the one part creationists do get. The Universe is not shoddy and does show intelligence.

If by intelligence you mean complexity, I agree.

For me, if there is an intelligent designer, it is most definitely not the Christian god, which I disbelieve in for a myraid of reasons (only a few of which I outlined in my story above).

If there is a designer, so what? He/she is apparently indifferent to our personal existence - and we can't know anything detailed about this designer, so why even bother, unless you are bored and at a coffee shop at 3 am?

In other words, ID is just not useful, irregardless of whether it's true or not. because it's based on extremely subjective criteria, and necessarily tangled up with religious beliefs which by their very nature are unverifyable and outside the realm of science.

scigirl

scigirl · 10-04-2002, 01:46 PM

GeoTheo,

Why are my subjective feelings about the tenets of Christianity less valid than your subjective feelings?

Every single Christian I have talked to has some types of "evidence" for their belief but the REAL reason is always, "it just feels right" or "I feel God in my heart."

For me it is the opposite. I disbelieve in Christianity for many reasons including a lack of evidence, AND the feelings I get when I think about the big picture - outside of the bible, history, etc.

scigirl

scigirl · 10-04-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Value is related to scarcity.
Suffering is a neccesary evil of existence in a physical world. You imply a knowledge of how to do it differently. But you actually don't posess such knowledge.

And these conclusions ARE proven? Since when?

And yes I could have designed our back better - that's not arrogance, that's just simple common sense (ok not ME, but some engineer)! We evolved from 4-legged creatures and thus are constrained by that.

scigirl

sciteach · 10-04-2002, 01:52 PM

The whole of creation that is visible fits in very nicely with the biblical nature of God. Especially the parts of nature that have been subsequently discovered since the bible was written. Of course the universe is a waste of space to you because you have an anthropocentric view and have ignored Gods purposes. This world is not a perfect world, it is sullied by sin.God is quite capable of forming a perfect material world, and he one day will.

sciteach · 10-04-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scigirl:

And yes I could have designed our back better - that's not arrogance, that's just simple common sense (ok not ME, but some engineer)!
scigirl[/QB]

Since when did an organism's lack of design optimalization militate against a designer????

Nat · 10-04-2002, 01:59 PM

Why am I not surprised that several request for this scientific evidence of ID that sciteach said existed in such abundance (here is the quote if you don't remember: "Why else are you so threatened by ID when it is supported by some exceedingly solid science?") were answered with this completely unscientific claptrap:

"The whole of creation that is visible fits in very nicely with the biblical nature of God. Especially the parts of nature that have been subsequently discovered since the bible was written. Of course the universe is a waste of space to you because you have an anthropocentric view and have ignored Gods purposes. This world is not a perfect world, it is sullied by sin.God is quite capable of forming a perfect material world, and he one day will. "

Why do so many creationists and IDists get surprised when scientists think that they are undereducated buffoons when we see this stuff every day?

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10-04-2002, 01:39 PM	#11
Abacus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,214	Which god/goddess?

10-04-2002, 01:46 PM	#16
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	GeoTheo, Why are my subjective feelings about the tenets of Christianity less valid than your subjective feelings? Every single Christian I have talked to has some types of "evidence" for their belief but the REAL reason is always, "it just feels right" or "I feel God in my heart." For me it is the opposite. I disbelieve in Christianity for many reasons including a lack of evidence, AND the feelings I get when I think about the big picture - outside of the bible, history, etc. scigirl

10-04-2002, 01:52 PM	#18
sciteach Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 36	The whole of creation that is visible fits in very nicely with the biblical nature of God. Especially the parts of nature that have been subsequently discovered since the bible was written. Of course the universe is a waste of space to you because you have an anthropocentric view and have ignored Gods purposes. This world is not a perfect world, it is sullied by sin.God is quite capable of forming a perfect material world, and he one day will.

10-04-2002, 01:59 PM	#20
Nat Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 100	Why am I not surprised that several request for this scientific evidence of ID that sciteach said existed in such abundance (here is the quote if you don't remember: "Why else are you so threatened by ID when it is supported by some exceedingly solid science?") were answered with this completely unscientific claptrap: "The whole of creation that is visible fits in very nicely with the biblical nature of God. Especially the parts of nature that have been subsequently discovered since the bible was written. Of course the universe is a waste of space to you because you have an anthropocentric view and have ignored Gods purposes. This world is not a perfect world, it is sullied by sin.God is quite capable of forming a perfect material world, and he one day will. " Why do so many creationists and IDists get surprised when scientists think that they are undereducated buffoons when we see this stuff every day?

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