markstake

Wow, I go away for a few hours, and look what happens to my thread!

Let's get back to the topic, which is: From a Christian's point of view, what's the problem with being a Christian?

I'll start with Amos, because he makes me laugh the most:
Hahahaha! You are too cool, Amos. This was my best laugh of the day. However, since this group is mostly comprised of critical thinkers, who will understand why this is funny, I'm not going to spend any more time on it.

Jamie_L writes:
Yes, I agree with you. However, it's mostly underrated by people who are NOT critical thinkers. And I agree that a world with more critical thinking would be a better place, but remember, we're looking at this from the point of view of the Christian, and whether or not the world is better is beside the point. Is the individual person happier?

Anyway, in regard to critical thinking, and to address another point of yours (and others) that does relate to the person: I think that Christianity may create a blind spot in thinking but does it actually create blindness? In other words, would Christianity create so much of a lack of critical thinking in matters not relating to the existence or nature of God that the person is more likely to be the victim of a swindle when they otherwise wouldn't have bought into it?

Also, on this same topic, truth for the sake of truth doesn't make anyone happy. Many people are happier not knowing the truth. "Ignorance is bliss" and "fat, dumb, and happy" may be just sayings, but there's some truth there too.

Christ-on-a-Stick writes:
Even if someone does go around smiting others, is that bad for the person doing the smiting? Potentially, due to laws, vengeful friends and relatives, etc., but assuming they could avoid all that it wouldn't necessarily be bad for the person doing the smiting.

Point of view is all important to this thread.

C-o-a-S says in another message:Ok, I agree with you here. However, even those women who consider themselves true believers don't actually put up with this. This may make them hipocrites, but nobody accused these Christians of being good critical thinkers anyway, especially in regard to their religion.

I've also heard replies of Afghan women who were asked questions about subjugation that said this is correct because it's God's will, so they have no complaints. Even so, even if they agree with the treatment, I would say it's bad for them.

I'd love to answer each and every point of every message, but I'm out of time.

Cipher Girl

Christianity like a lot of other religions limits a person's ethical growth. Instead teaching one to take responsibility for their life, god (or the devil) is their puppetmaster. Instead of doing good for it's own sake and because it makes you feel good, good is done to curry favor with big daddy in the sky or to avoid being punished by big daddy. This keeps the followers at the ethical level of a 5 year old.

kesparate

cipher girls got it right. this applies to all theology as well as any form of spiritualism.
as to the objections to critical thinking i would suggest that everything you do involves critical thinking skills. i.e. boy, i sure am hungry maybe i should eat this drano. oh, wait that's not good because then i'll die.
this is critical thinking, so yes it does make the individual happier. we evalutate things all day everyday. people who are religious have made a choice, an analytical choice, to accept their religion and reject the portions of reality that conflict with it. they live in a dream world of delerium and fluffy white clouds, where a loving dad tells them what their life is all about because they are to simple or scared to figure out for themselves what they actualy want their life to mean. religion is a personal retardent, so that makes religious people...? anyone?

Godless Dave

I look at it the same way I look at drug use. Some people only perform religious observances at holidays, or even just weddings and funerals. They are like recreational users, and while I would not choose to do what they do they don't seem to be hurting anyone and it doesn't seem to affect their judgement. Some go every week, or even twice a week. They are more like functioning addicts. They are immersed in religion enough that it can affect the way they think and impair judgement. It's none of my business as long as they pay their bills and taxes and don't hurt anybody, but if a friend or relative was using that much I would be concerned. And then there are the flat out addicts. Religion keeps them from being fulfilled in life, and sometimes leads them to irrational, self-destructive, or violent behavior. Those people need help, but you can't help someone if they don't want to be helped.

Stephen T-B

Drawbacks ?
My mother prayed most of her life for god to make her a better person, and being aware that she never became one very seriously damaged her self-esteem because rather than blame god for failing her, she blamed herself for failing god.
Both my parents were “hard users” in terms of religious addiction, and were constantly on the look-out for a new high - like the thing they were missing which would supply it was always just around that next corner. I didn’t envy then this sense of something always alluding them.
Especially important to my father was the fact that the sins of the world would, at any time now, catch up with it, so when the End Times became vogue towards the end of the Millennium he was ready and waiting for them. Needing an imminent crisis, however, did not contribute to a relaxed state of mind. For a lot of the time, he was very tense.

My grandfather, towards the end of his life, began to wonder if he had, in fact, been good enough to get to heaven. His fears assailed him and they degraded the quality of his final years. I was told, later, that this is not uncommon among sincere believers.
And all the Believers I know have moments of doubt which threaten to destroy everything they deem important.

Ronin

Don't worry, markstake...I get that alot.

Amos

Of course because faith cannot be conceived to exist without doubt. Since doubters cannot go to heaven, faithers will also not be allowed in-- or atheists could go to heaven and we sure don't want that because that would remove the purpose of religion.

The point here is that religion must be seen as a means to an end, wherein, in the end, all faith and doubt are removed so knowledge and understanding can set us free from faith and doubt. I.e. knowledge frees.

Which knowledge? Our own soul is the knowledge we are after, or, that part of us we call intuition. When? Not after we die because that would be too late.

Where did this happen in the Bible? When Thomas was shown the spiritual wounds of Jesus and this simultaneuosly defrocked Peter the Faither who was the Twin of Thomas the Doubter.

Starboy

Amos, I was able to follow you until you got to this point....

What does Jesus showing his spiritual wounds to Thomas have to do with defrocking Peter and Thomas? And what is the significance of their defrocking?

Starboy

Radorth

I guess Locke, Hooker, Lewis, Chesterton, Tolkien, etc weren't Christians. Compared to them I'd say most skeptics here are locked in to some pretty rigid thinking.

See the "Philosophy" forum for evidence of the skeptic's fulfilled lives.

Or more worth it, depending on how you look at it.

Yes, better to remain obsessed with your sexual needs, presume you were just born that way, and remain guilt free.

And we note how much more tolerant skeptics are than Christians here. We also note how appreciative skeptics are of independent Christian thinking. One wonders how many atheists-turned-Christian would dare give there reasons for it here.

The only truly "novel" ideas I've seen here are all the new Jesus-myth theories, such as Paul posing as Luke, a female, who wrote Acts about 140 AD. But I suppose if you want to take a hundred gratuitous and cynical assertions for granted, you can be one of those "free-thinkers" and have all sorts of other "novel" ideas.

I'm sorry Jefferson would call them Grade A nutballs then or now, but we know how he swallowed the Christian line.

Rad

Bree

I have always wondered why some Christians feel that life MUST be filled with suffering and denial. God forbid you actually be happy with yourself.