Vorkosigan

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42763-2002Feb7.html" target="_blank">Here</a>

Orpheous99

So, what else is new?

sullster

I have to give the Russki Church a bit of a break on this one. They were banned for 70 years and their churches were called "museums" by the Reds in charge. Now they have a chance to come back and then what shows up but American bible thumpers, catholics and all kinds of wacky cults. I say good for them for kicking out that besotted crowd. The Russian O Church always was intertwined with Russian national identity and maybe they need some of their own myths rather than the junk from the US bible belt or whatever.

Amos

Wise move but probable won't work because fundies are willing to die in their effort to convert Catholics.

This will escalate and Russia will have to chose sides and will come across as anti-American.

Amos

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sullster:
[QB]

The Russian Orthodox Church is just a Catholic Church in Catholic country and therefore the national identity. You just do not know what Catholicism can be like. How could you?

sullster

[quote]Originally posted by Amos:
<strong> Amos, you don't know a thing about Russia and Russian history if you think that the ROC is catholic or that Russia considers itself catholic. Russia always viewed the catholic church as the heart of the decadent West. Go and read some Dostoyevski novels. Read "The Brothers Karamazov", in particular the chapter entitled,"The Grand Inquisitor", it drips with anit-catholicism.

The Russian Orthodox Church has always been fiercely Russian. Don't you think for a moment that only the fundies are their enemy. They will oppose anyone who represents the evil Western religion headed by the Pope in Rome.

Now go get a book on Russian history. You are right, I don't know what catholicism is like but I do know that you do not have a clue about the nature of the Russian O Church.

Amos

The Brother Karamozov is my favorite book and "you're a brick Mitja" my favorite line. You, sullster, don't have a clue what binds Catholics together and that from their point of view the Catholic Church has been defiled by Western thought (as I told you in my previous post).

Yes, I liked the "The Gand Inquisition" and is kind of my idol. Remember also father Zoshima and his wake? (its been 10 years for me). I did some course work on Russian Lit and wrote extensively on the character delineation of "WE" (my all time favorite poem).

Amos

copernicus

Amos, the Russian Orthodox Church is as "Catholic" as the Greek Orthodox Church.

The Russian Orthodox Church was never actually "banned". It was dominated by the Communists, and churchgoers were persecuted. However, even the Catholic Church had some presence in the SU. I, myself, met a Roman Catholic prelate in Kiev in 1965, being dragged to see him by a Catholic friend. The prelate believed that I was Catholic, because of my Polish surname. He was so happy to see us that I didn't have the heart to tell him I was an atheist. Indeed, many Russians assumed I was religious, and they were constantly trying to convert me to atheism. I really disappointed them when they discovered that I was not religious.

I was present in Russia in 1997, when this new law was passed. What prompted it was the alarming rate at which Russians were turning away from the Orthodox Church. It was felt that the older, "established" religions were non-threatening to Russian orthodoxy, so they were exempted. Sooner or later, they were bound to be attacked by the government, which has always had a cozy relationship with Orthodox priests.

[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: copernicus ]</p>

sullster

Amos, just today in the local rag, "The Boston Globe", there was a story about how the Russian Church was very angry about the catholics wanting to set up dioceses in Russia. The Russians are accusing Rome of "poaching souls" from Russia. What is going on with your viewpoint? The Russian Church is NOT catholic, hates catholics and is trying to keep them out of Russia.

Did you really read the chapter called,"The Grand Inquisitor"? It is very anti-catholic and portrays christ coming to Spain during the Inquisition and being put in prison. The Grand Inquisitor tells christ that his ideas are ridiculous and he should never come again. The implication is that christ would feel OK in Russia and not in Catholic Spain, among other vast insights I will add.

Come on Amos, the Russian Church has always hated and feared Rome as being the capital of Western decadence. You do not know Russian history. I have no idea where you get your ideas on this subject. I will appeal to others to back up what I am saying.

Amos

Fair enough, you win. My copy is out on loan and I don't have the time to reap up on this. I have a dozen or so other books on it but I will leave them all on the shelve.

No problem for me, I am never here to win an argument but to present a point of view.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>