Magus55

Why do you care whether He needed a blood sacrifice? Its over and done with, and He no longer requires it - Jesus died for all of humanity forever.

You know why God the Father didn't come down? He can't. He cannot be in the prescence of sin, that and you would be dead if He stood before you. His majesty and Holiness is more than a mortal human can handle. Ever seen the movie Contact? Remember when Eli finished her wormhole trip and was starring at that Galaxy or star? ( can't remember what it was) Would you be in awe at the majesty and overwhelming beauty of a galaxy if you were standing there? Multiply that feeling by a trillion and you might get a small fraction of the feeling of being in God's prescence. We are in a sinful world, in sinful bodies and couldn't even handle His Glory. By becoming flesh, He lowered himself briefly from God the Father and the flesh allows Him to interact among sinners.

Magus55

And what method would you suggest, since you seem to think you know better than God? Tell us, how would you allow humanity to be saved ( Here is a tip: You can't just forgive without repentence, and you can't just let humans get away with their sins, and no human is good enough to reach Heaven by their own merit).

God chose that manner because giving your life for another is the greatest act anyone can do. So you take the word of God, in the flesh - Holy, Righteous, Perfect, and Sinless - and He fulfills the Laws perfectly for us, since we aren't able to do it. Then He gives up His mortal life to be the perfect human ideal that God requires to pay the debt of a world of sinners. If Jesus didn't die, how would He be able to pay Humanities debt? He didn't conquer sin and death if He didn't die himself, and rise again. Thats the whole point. By dying for humanity - the most selfless act there is - and rising again - Jesus took sin and death on Him, and conquered it on the cross, so that anyone who believes in what He did - will not face the fate of spiritual Death, but will live, as Jesus does for eternity.

Magus55

Tell me if you would be scared knowing you were about to face one of the worst torture and execution methods in human history, as well as facing the infinite emotional burden of carrying the worlds Evil and sin with you to your death? Jesus was still human, with human feelings and emotions. He was scared just like any human about facing such a horrible death - regardless of coming back alive. And as I have stated many times before. Jesus going to Heaven is irrelevant in the discussion of His death, because He was there in the first place before He came to Earth. By dying on the cross, and rising again. Jesus gained absolutely nothing He didn't already have. The only thing that resulted from His sacrifice was a way for us to escape God's righteous Judgement, and have eternal life in Heaven. Jesus gained nothing except the scars of His wounds.

Llyricist

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
that was one of the better demonstrations of the absurdity of the Christian paradigm I've seen in a while... thanks

winstonjen

In other words, 'he felt like it.' I don't need a blood sacrifice before I forgive people. Am I better than your deity? From what you tell me, I am.

Strange. What is 'sin' for me is not 'sin' for him.

And I thought that omniprescece was one of your deities attributes.

Wow. That's a pretty big limitation you're putting on your deity there.

Says you.

Except that for an eternal being, a life is a simple thing to create. If he gave up his life FOR GOOD, THEN I'd be impressed.

I wouldn't be scared if I knew I'd be going to heaven and eternal bliss after it.

He got a lot of worshippers, which was his intention. Sounds pretty selfish to me.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Why do you care whether He needed a blood sacrifice?

Probably because some people claim that the grisly deed was necessary. Therefore, we would like to establish why it was necessary.

You know why God the Father didn't come down? He can't. He cannot be in the prescence of sin,

This would be the same god who talked to Satan in the story of Job?

that and you would be dead if He stood before you.

Maybe Jesus isn't as holy as his father, if people weren't dropping like flies before him.

We are in a sinful world, in sinful bodies and couldn't even handle His Glory.

I wonder how Adam and Eve managed to stay alive in his presence after they ate the fruit.

By becoming flesh, He lowered himself briefly from God the Father and the flesh allows Him to interact among sinners.

What is the special property of flesh that enables it to do so? Just that it's a meaty substance with some fat, a few blood vessels, and so on? How could this block out the power, awe, glory and whatever of god?

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
By dying on the cross, and rising again. Jesus gained absolutely nothing He didn't already have.

Actually, he gained millions of slaves, people brainwashed by guilt into doing whatever he said.

Not that God the Father didn't have slaves already, although God the Father's method of slavery was terror, rather than guilt. But obviously Jesus needed a few of his own.

The only thing that resulted from His sacrifice was a way for us to escape God's righteous Judgement

If it's righteous, then it would be wrong to escape from it.

winstonjen

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Enough said!

I wonder if the other two would have backed out if it were them.

Oh no! Looks like I've commited the UNPARDONABLE SIN!

Jimmy Higgins

Why not? Its called parenting. I'm certainly glad my parents didn't decide to slaughter me so that the sins of the rest of the family would be atoned. But look at God's actions in the past. He decided not to kill the man and woman and clothed them when he booted them from Paradise. God showed grace on Cain by making a mark so that no one would kill him, even after he killed his own brother. God showed grace on Noah when flooded the world. God showed grace to a race of people after scattering the world at Babel. God has always punished but then shown grace. Why would you want to say it couldn't be done again?

Godless Dave

Humans do NOT die from sin. They die from old age, disease, and injury. This was true before Jesus's crucifixion and after it. His crucifixion doesn't seem to have saved anybody. And the punishment he took on for us - dying- is one every human still has to endure.